Seattlelites are such babies when it comes to violence. In real cities shootings happen all the time. Deal with it.

I love my Capitol Hill condo and the more of these old buildings they rip down the better. Living in a dense vibrant city means occasional violence folks. Get over it!

Just because violence happens doesn't mean you should accept it or get used to it. If that's your attitude, you should move back to Pittsburg.

Ha! Pittsburgh. Good one. Playing right into the stereotype: the fresh-off-the-plane, ensconced-in-the-snooty-new-condo East Coast asshole.
Seattleites understand "dense vibrant city" -- after all, "baby," it's our city. It's our city and we like that it's generally a civilized place.

Sounds like somebodies needs to teach these bridgers some manners - like how to behave properly when they visit our neighborhood.

Listening to Pittsburgh Transplant is like listening to people from Chicago complain about how Seattle complains about snow. Get over it. We're not prepared and we never will be. If the snow doesnt bug you why the fuck are you here? If the violence doesnt bug you: why the fuck are you here? One of the great things about the NW is the lack of violence and major climate disasters. We like it that way, and god dammit, it'll stay that way.

It would break my heart to become familiar with what a firearm sounds like, just like it broke my heart to get accustomed to what a bulldozer sounds like at 7am tearing down the Victorian across the street. Fuck this shit.

Catnextdoor wins.

It is interesting that Seattle mellow and accepting is mistaken by the newly arrived machos to mean- they are a bunch of wussies and witless hippies.

The progressive politic of this region go back to the turn of the century. Loggers were gunned down in strikes. Seattle is the only city in America to have had a general strike. Can we shout WTO?

Wobblies and unionists and suffragettes and all nature of progressive groups have always had an impressive voice here. Including the old and new left, commies, socialists, etc.

Those progressive political voices have created a progressive culture. Outsiders don't get it at all. We try to live in a big way our politics. Violence and war are the nemisis of civil society and always damage ordinary people. We want to end both.

Gay issues, feminist issues, enviro issues - we don't see them as just ideas, we implement them into our culture and the manners and mores of the City. We recycle, have good food banks and free clinics.

I love this place. In many ways we have succeeded in building a fine place to live. And the scenic beauty is astonishing, residents get used to it, but the lakes, mountains, Pudget, and the forests give our city great beauty in its setting.

I am shocked by people who expect me to be happy they own guns. I am shocked by people who do not protest war. I am shocked by any degree of sexism, racism or homophobia.

And I am sure as hell not a Republican.

Gee, Pittsburg, planes leave SeaTac all the time. Please take one and go back where you come from if you feel that way. As a matter of fact it is your mentality that has moved to Seattle which has led to the "acceptance" of increase violence on Cap Hill.

BTW, I have friends who live in Chicago in boystown and guess what? They are actually shocked that Capital Hill has seen the upsurge of violence. And having gone out in Chicago myself, I feel safer walking around Northalsted than I have ever felt on Pike/Pine for years.

This is another case of The Stranger trying to create a news topic while ignoring others that don't apply to their politics.

Lets wait and see what the police have to say on this being a homophobic shooting or if it's just a random act before starting the, "They are hunting Gays" rant that is starting at the Stranger.

BTW, Pittsburgh, I do agree with you one thing.

Like yourself, I grew up on the East Coast and am constantly shaking my head at the "progressives" in this city and their sense of entitlement.

Here's a lesson every 4 year old on the East Coast learns quickly.

Don't run your mouth unless you have the balls and braun to back it up.

Braun and balls? Are you talking about shaving your taint?

All I can say is that if there is anything I, lone Capitol Hill resident, can do to help make life miserable for the owners and clientele of Sugar and Club Lagoon, please do let me know.

So let me get this straight #9, if it was not gay related we should all shut up and be happy we have gun fire on Cap Hill but if it was gay related then and only then we should get pissed off? I thought any gun fire was a bad thing in any neighborhood but you know, what do us west coast liberals know. You recent transplants seem to have all the answers.

Why did you move from the East Coast by the way? I mean it sounds like it was utopia for you out there and we are obviously not up to your standards.....

Is there any sort of public hearing about new businesses that want to open operations in Seattle? Maybe we can start to put some focus on the clubs that may want to open on the hill before they open and hold them to account right from the start. In other words put the concerns out while the owners are trying to get an application to open up shop.

Yes...let's have more meetings!

so.... does anyone know what actually happened, other than a vague report from an intern that was posted at 2:19am on Friday night/Saturday morning?

@15: no.

But whipping up hysteria so much fun!!!

Yes @16, It's refreshingly SGN-esque, isn't it?

I'm 35 years old. I moved to Capitol Hill when I was 7 with my single parent dad. He came out that year and got a job at Seattle Counseling Service. I patrolled Broadway with the Guardian Angels in the 80s. I now own a condo three blocks from the house my dad and I lived in when I went to high school. I've also lived other places-- a year each in LA, San Diego, San Francisco, Olympia and Bellingham.

Those are my credentials. I've been here and been involved in what's going on for a very long time and I have many points of comparison.

So a couple of things about what kind of town Seattle is and who the people living on Capitol Hill are:

Those progressive political voices have created a progressive culture. Outsiders don't get it at all.

This is horseshit. Seattle is nothing but outsiders now. Nobody I hung out with in high school still lives on the Hill. Most of them don't even live in Seattle-- they've been pushed out to Bothel and Auburn. That's largely because the "progressive" outsiders who came here looking for a "progressive" lifestyle priced out all the blue collar workers who made up the core of that progressive legacy you're talking about. The jacked up land values made the urban manufacturing base vulnerable to economic downturns and one by one the factories that used to be all over Ballard, South Lake Union, Fremont and Interbay have either headed to China or Walla Walla, and the old factory buildings have been turned into lofts or torn down for new condos. Of the very few people my age who are still in Seattle, the vast majority of them have at least a BA. The ones who went straight from high school to a garage or a grocery store or a dry dock are all living in split level ramblers in the burbs.

So please, peddle that "outsiders" shtick somewhere else. Walk down Broadway and take a quick survey, I doubt one person in ten went to elementary school here. Seattle is a very low-key town, but it's got nothing to do with the history of blue collar activism and progressivism you mention.

That's A.

B is, hey, guess what, gay people are violent too. For all my dad was the poster boy for queer rights he was also a violent drug addict who beat my mom (once threw her down a flight of stairs) and me (hit with bottles, a hose, coat hangars, spatulas and so on). You know that thing where meth has gotten really popular in the queer club scene? You really think there's no violence in that situation? Think again.

So the moral of the story is that Seattle has more Californians than Seattleites in it and that I can tell you from extensive first hand experience that queers are as violent as anyone under the right circumstances. So how 'bout we all just own up to the reality that if there's violence on Capitol Hill it's because of choices we've made as a community and not because of some insidious "outsiders" influence.

Christ. You people sound like Paul Schell.

Man, the climate on Capitol Hill since Sugar and Lagoon have opened is IMMEDIATELY different and unwanted. I'm gonna ignore the gay supremacists running that "Heteros are ruining our Neighborhood" bait though. That shit's not untrue but aim a little higher, please.

Back to those clubs. The other night I walked out of Neumo's and was amazed. I thought Capitol Hill had taken the night off and let Pioneer Square stand in as understudy.

It's quite unwelcome but seriously, what're you gonna do? Are you going to hold huge protests that consist of homos and hipsters in the face of weekend warriors and condo tranplants? This is expected to make who sympathetic and to what end?

You don't have to be a progressive to not want random acts of violence in this town, especially if someone is minding their own business and not looking to start trouble in front of a club. Do I feel a "sense of entitlement" when I want to feel safe walking down the street in this city? Everyone should.

look, this city is not progressive, and it never will be.

After reading all of this I have a question. If a someone gay or lesbian moves to Seattle, where do they go that is not going to be spilling over with people who are clearly hateful towards each other and definately hateful towards gays and lesbians. BTW, last night on Broadway I was walking by Club Lagoon and some guys in a car threw beer bottles at me. But reading this I am sure they were gay...

Seattle was much more progressive when a larger percentage of the population were union members. Now that we have a lot of self-agrandizing computer types (who have not yet realized that they are the TV repairmen of the new millenium) we are much less progressive and much more materialistic.

Even the crew-cut, slide-ruled engineering geeks of the less militarized Boeing (50's-70's) were more grounded and open to ideas.

So now we're blaming the computer nerds for Violence on the Hill?

This thread topic has so much suckage I suggest killing it off until at least a detailed report of what actually occurred on the night in question is put forth, lest we create such a vacuum, out of which no constructive thought can escape.

And for all you glossing over comment 18, it may be your only saving grace to try to come to terms with what he is saying.

"Seattle was much more progressive when a larger percentage of the population were union members. Now that we have a lot of self-agrandizing computer types (who have not yet realized that they are the TV repairmen of the new millenium) we are much less progressive and much more materialistic."

Bwahahaha. Most nonsensical comment yet.

98104, please READ what is being written. I was not talking about violence. I was talking about how progressive Seattle is (or isn't), and stating the FACT that most of Seattle's historic strides in progressive actions were prior to Microsoft, when the region had much less economic inequality.

TSM, Sorry I struck a nerve with you. I know change is scary, but it will be all right. You can always go work at Wal-Mart when your job is sent to India.

seattle98104

Just why would you stop talking about violence on the Hill? The post has gone far beyond the first line - and I FIND IT VERY INTERESTING.

SHUTTING PEOPLE DOWN IS NOT PROGRESSIVE, LETTING PEOPLE TALK IS.

And homos like to chit chat chi cha with each other. Rather than kicking each others asses from boredom. And we have very little fear of differences and broad opinions. There are gay Republicans you know!!!!!! And they get blow jobs at 4am....

Collect a few more clues and don't try the straight man to homos, shut up and come to terms thing. Guck.

#21

Mike -
Seattle is very progressive. Perhaps we have missed a common definition?

Long live the peoples republic of Seattle.

Yes, it was a soviet state.

red = progressive (not ref. the couch color)

Andrew @12, Bullshit Indeed @ 20....

One random shooting happens in Capitol Hill, no motive has been alleged, yet the Stranger alleges that this HAS to me gay bashing of sorts.

On the other hand, some violent thug is shot in mid robbery below Pike Place Market, yet The Stranger presenets how the Shooter was a victim and the Police need to be invetsigated.

Gang activity increases in the central district, Gun Shots in neighborhoods become a daily occurrance in the CD and The Stranger prints a series of articles on how this is absoulutely NOT the act of gang activity and that these incidents have not actually happened, rather, crime is actually down from last year.

You'll excuse me if I dismiss the Stranger as any form of Seattle based News source. Quite frankly, I would be surpised if there was one local who worked there. It's a click whose political viewpoints are going to change as they begin to mature (a great Example is Erica C. Barnett and her formerly being a Vegan. I'd place A sizeable wager that when this chick was a vegan she was in everyones face about their not following her same lifestyle choice).

Now, regarding my point of a sense of entitlement, there's a big difference between walking down the street, minding your own business and being assaulted and running your mouth and taking a beating and/or being shot.

I think The Seattle weekly captures the attitude perfectly with the Column, Ask an uptight Seattleite.

It's one thing to have a Seattle attitude about yourself and be able to back it up, it's another to run your mouth and then complain when you take a beating, get shot, whatever.....

Sometimes you are just a punchline for the Darwin Awards.

BTW, Andrew, why did I move out here?

It's simple, with the gene pool in Seattle as it is, any motivated person from anywhere, lete alone the East Coasts, who moves out here is gonna run circles around you. We'll get stuff done, better and faster than anyone of the locals. And when we step on your toes, what are you gonna do?

Talk? Have a focus grouop? Complain to someone?

Keep that in mind when I buy your building and raise your rent.

Sorry "Oh Bullshit" but I have a house. Nice try though.

Sure you do.......

#11 "All I can say is that if there is anything I, lone Capitol Hill resident, can do to help make life miserable for the owners and clientele of Sugar and Club Lagoon, please do let me know."

hahaha threats over the internet, thats something a 9 year old would do and oh yeah as a clientele of Sugar, i would love to see you try something...this type of threats and comments will just create more violence

What happened last Friday?

Shitty security at Sugar + not enough hip-hop dance clubs in Seattle = Crips vs. Bloods

It's not a complicated equation.
Sugar is NOT a "straight" club now. Once a week, on Fridays, they have a hip-hop night. It is a diverse crowd. There are lots of early-20-something people of color, lots of skanktastic white girls, lots of white-kids-who-love-hip-hop, and *gasp* LOTS OF GAYS. (Who woulda thunk, right?... Because gays only listen to indie trash and techno, right? There's no need for a hip-hop club on Capitol Hill because we don't listen to that garbage...)

The atmosphere in the club is chill, and everyone, for the most part, gets along and coexists without drama. What happened was not a result of "gay hate crimes." It was not a result of the *gasp* dangers of hip-hop. It was a result of shoddy security and the fact that Seattle doesn't have enough hip hop clubs... All of the kids have to go to one club.

We may not be Detroit or NYC, but Seattle does have gangs. When there is only one place for everyone to go on a Friday night, and you add in a whole bunch of alcohol and an over-crowded sweaty mob of people grinding on each other, you're BOUND to have a problem.

The answer?

More hip-hop clubs.

Ditch the NIMBY attitude.

Higher police presence in the Pike/Pine Corridor on club nights.

Better security at the clubs in question.

These two Slog posts, and their corresponding comment threads, have been so full of douchebaggery and ignorance that it is overwhelming.

We're not talking about gay hate crimes. We're not talking about hip-hop. We're not talking about the mother fucking Lagoon or War Room.

Jesus.

And we call the Republicans fear mongers.

Holy Shit.....

That's awesome.

Now, What's the take on the Strangers irresponsible articles on how there are not gangs in Seattle?

Looks like the NIMBYS now have a hip-hop club right in their backyard.

Good.

Looks like school has started on Capitol Hill.

What article did The Stranger run about how there are no gangs in Seattle?... I'd really like to read that, since after years and years and years working DIRECTLY WITH SEATTLE'S GANG MEMBERS, I'd like to see how in God's name someone could come to the conclusion that Seattle doesn't have a gang problem... URL?...

Shooting in the U-district tonight, too. Drug dealers? Tommy's? Who can tell anymore? Connected to this? Who can tell? I can at least say, a hundred dumb, drunk frat morons do a lot to contaminate a crime scene. What is the logic behind rioting when the police are trying to deal with the aftermath of a shooting? Right. None.

Here is just one of the idiotic missives posted by The Stranger.

While I don't like hearing about shooting or violence of any kind, I cannot miss the poetic justice of what (it sounds like) is begining to happen in their backyard.

Seriously, the writing staff at the Stranger is the most irresponsible group I have ever seen.

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=122432

Dear Bullshit:
Then quit reading the Stranger and quit coming to this site...it's that simple...

The situation developing on the Hill is bad. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that a problem is developing; just walk around pike/pine and broadway on a friday or saturday nite. Too many assholes coming to the 'Hill...I have nothing against hiphop and 90/95% of the people who like hiphop are great people but that 5/10% who are jerks ruin it for everyone...these clubs need to beef up their security or get out and the police need to do their job and if need be, we need to bring back the Guardian Angels to keep our streets safe; it's as simple as that...

unfortunately what's going to happen is the usual Seattle routine: lots of talk, no action and then someone's going to get hurt, or killed...

Q Patrol - "we need to bring them back"

who is the we

great project which folded after years for lack of new members, money and community support

the era is the big time queer volunteer ended years ago

ask any non profit about recruiting free vol. help these days, scarce - of course, could call them unpaid interns - a la Stranger

perhaps the largest reason i like capitol hill is that the community on whole is so welcoming. as a straight male, however, reading this thread has the unfortunate effect of making me feel a little less welcome. just something to consider.

also, i've been assaulted while the attacker threw insults implying he thought i was gay. so, i guess even in a strange, small way, this is not just about gay victims their macho straight attackers. as mentioned previously, this is about unaccpetable violent behavior and the attitudes that accompany and allow it.

#39: I volunteer; do YOU? But, I do agree with you that volunteerism seems to be a thing of the past, as does activism...today's young gay (and straight, for that matter) isn't too inclined to fight for anything that they believe in for the simple reason that no one seems to believe in anything except their own self-involved lives....and after writing that, I feel very old and ready to move into Fred Lind...

#40: the danger is to all residents of Capitol Hill...Bigots with knives and chains don't differentiate between straight and gay; straight folk are in just as much danger as the gay folk...if they see two guys walking on the Hill, the yahoos assume we're ALL gay...

@ #40:

Yeah, I agree with you. As a straight guy who has been living on the hill for years, I've been assaulted before for being "gay". The last time it happened was on Madison by Piecora's Pizza about a year and a half ago. The irony of the situation was that I was with three girls, one of which I was casually dating, and they were two drunk guys by themselves. I don't think it matters if look gay or not, or whether you are hanging out with males or not.

About this shooting outside of Sugar, I highly doubt it had anything to do with homophobia, I can see maybe a personal beef, or maybe a drug deal gone wrong more likely. Besides isn't the Comet right by there too? I love the
Comet, but whose to say that they didn't come from there?

@#38:

I don't think beefing up security at clubs will do anything. The people who work at the clubs and bars are already doing more than their share of bouncing people and neutralizing fights, I'd even go to point of saying they go too far sometimes. I know acquaintances that have gotten roughed up, bounced from bars from the "beefed up" security in the area lately because they singled out the wrong person.

The problem is what happens outside of the clubs, not in them.

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