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1

I wish the best for Elizabeth Edwards and that whole family. I agree, calling a press conference the day after her doctor's appointment can't be good news.

Posted by Gabriel | March 22, 2007 7:46 AM
2

God, I hope Edwards does not drop out... But if he does I am still all for doing the moral thing: Find and kidnap Al Gore and force/beg/coerce/plead with him to run for the White House. Is there some way we can trick him into running? Please anyone? The thought of Hillary as President really really scares me. It scares me almost as much as another republican in the White House.

Posted by Andrew | March 22, 2007 7:48 AM
3

Mable Peabody's Beauty Parlor and Chainsaw Repair? Awesome.

Posted by Gabriel | March 22, 2007 7:53 AM
4

Forgot one other thing: What the HELL are people doing about the right wing freaks burning down gay bars??? F*CK, that is totally unacceptable. And what are we doing in Seattle to prevent someone from burning down The Cuff or Purr or Manray?? Seriously people, this crap is not going to stay in just Dallas. And they sent a bunch of the born-agains to SF a couple of weeks ago. We better start standing up, and we better start now!

Posted by Andrew | March 22, 2007 7:53 AM
5

Find and kidnap Al Gore and force/beg/coerce/plead with him to run for the White House.

I still think he will run. And if he is planning on running, what he's doing right now is very smart. He's letting the other candidates take the heat and bear all the usual scrutiny for many months, then he jumps in and steals their thunder late in the game.

Posted by Gabriel | March 22, 2007 7:55 AM
6

Dan - regarding the burning of the gay bar in Dallas, I like your comment from a few weeks back about the relationship between conservative anti-government rhetoric and the Oklahoma city bombing. It needs to be said again and again, that violent homophobia is the natural result of the Christian right's rhetoric.

Posted by Gabriel | March 22, 2007 7:58 AM
7

What do you want us to do about it Andrew. Should we pass laws? Oh right, arson is against the law. What are you doing to stop someone from burning down The Cuff or Purr or Manray? I don't see you patrolling the streets with a fire extinguisher.

Posted by elswinger | March 22, 2007 7:59 AM
8

So elswinger is going to wait for a pogram to be called. What would YOU suggest elswinger? Really, what is your idea? We are all listening.

Posted by Andrew | March 22, 2007 8:02 AM
9

Um, I think those are two different articles about the same shooting on Rainier Ave S. So only one person was shot to death in South Seattle yesterday.

Posted by Thel | March 22, 2007 8:06 AM
10

best. bar name. ever.

Posted by konstantconsumer | March 22, 2007 8:10 AM
11

Hey, I live in Magnolia and I want the surface/transit option. I wouldn't mind the tunnel but after the monorail mess I don't trust the city to get it done right. So, I voted no and hell no, god damn it.

Oh, and Mable Peabody's Beauty Parlor and Chainsaw Repair is the best fucking gay bar name EVER! I hope they rebuild.

Posted by monkey | March 22, 2007 8:12 AM
12

OH YEAH, and I hope Elizabeth Edwards is okay.

Posted by monkey | March 22, 2007 8:14 AM
13

OH YEAH pt 2: Stephen Colbert ROCKS!

Impeach the mother fucker RIGHT NOW!

Posted by monkey | March 22, 2007 8:16 AM
14

Guys, relax. Most Americans are way too incompetent, apathetic and self-involved to pull off a pogrom.

If you've ever worked in customer service, then you know that's the truth. How the hell our society continues to function is a daily miracle.

Is Q-Patrol still around? Maybe we could have a group like the Pink Posse from Queer as Folk.

Posted by Original Andrew | March 22, 2007 8:17 AM
15

I hope this decision by the Episcopal Church gets Slogged:


After a five-day meeting in Texas, the US bishops said: "We proclaim a gospel that welcomes diversity of thought and encourages free and open theological debate as a way of seeking God's truth. If that means others reject us and communion with us, as some have already done, we must with great regret and sorrow accept their decision."

The US Episcopal Church has said that they would rather be severed from the Anglican Communion than be forced to treat homosexuals as second-class citizens. That is wonderful, heartening news.

Posted by Gabriel | March 22, 2007 8:24 AM
16

It might be a big deal or it might not be, but it's worth noting that Mable Peabody's is actually in Denton, TX, not Dallas. Dallas and Fort Worth are the nearest big cities, but they're both about an hour away.

Dallas and Fort Worth, like most large cities in Texas and elsewhere, are mostly inclusive, tolerant places, while Denton, like a lot of smaller towns throughout the country, is much less so.

Posted by Tim | March 22, 2007 8:26 AM
17

Politico is reporting that Edwards is suspending his campaign because his wife's cancer has returned.

Posted by Gabriel | March 22, 2007 8:29 AM
18

Actually, it might be more accurate to describe Denton as a mid-sized city rather than a small town or even a Dallas exurb: the population estimate for 2005 is 103,029.

Posted by Tim | March 22, 2007 8:31 AM
19

Wake Me for the Official Pogrom

For Nancy

Not Denton, SEATTLE 1999- Officials say vandalism early Wednesday that temporarily disrupted Starbucks was intentional.

"They broke in, smasked windows and took coffee then threw chairs all over the place," said Kelly, who has been working as store manager. "I wonder if it could have been a corporate-bashing deal. I have no idea."

Margaret opened the club a long time ago in Pike Place Market, Kelly said. Back then, she said, it was a pretty cool to open a coffeehouse. Who knew it would develop into a musical taste decider, a place for horridly overpriced sugarloafs, and contribute to the financial chaos of the NBA.' Kelly said she has no conscience and has no idea who might have done the vandalizing.

"I think I lost my green apron along with a huge stack of Starbucks debit cards," she said.

Posted by james | March 22, 2007 8:35 AM
20

Dan, I don't think a pogrom is around the corner, but if we in "the community" fail to act then we are inviting one.
Maybe Larry Kramer is not everybody's cup of tea so if we don't join an Act Up Army then do something else!
One starting point might be to make this years pride parde overtly political. I don't know where to begin to achieve that goal, maybe you do, Dan.
We need to express our concerns for our rights and very existance without reguard as to how it might make politicans uneasy.
Making the pride prade political with signs, banners, chants etc. might make for a smaller turn out on the last Sunday in June, but continued silcence in this case IS death.

Posted by James | March 22, 2007 8:45 AM
21

That Colbert piece was awesome. I think he put into (hilarious) words what a huge portion of the country is thinking.

Posted by Mike in MO | March 22, 2007 8:54 AM
22

I'm one of the many West Seattle people that voted Yes. In fact, I voted yes and yes. For some silly reason I want to be able to get downtown. Current transit doesn't serve us hicks very well in the outer parts of the city, Dan.

I certainly hope you're not saying people West Seattle and Magnolia don't count as city residents. Or that we're less important than the downtown million dollar condo dwellers or Cap Hill 1/2 million dollar condo dwellers. Sorry our way of getting to and through downtown is interfering with your view. But that comment shows me that The Stranger's position comes not from an interest for the whole city, just those parts they're involved in. That's disappointing.

The people that live further out in the city actually want to get there. People involved with Sound Transit should take a very serious look at this vote. It might be instructive.

Posted by Dave Coffman | March 22, 2007 9:00 AM
23

Viaduct users want it mote than non-users, shocking.

Current users of Bimbo's care more about it being torn down than non-users, unbelievable.

Microsoft workers in Belltown want 520 expanded but people in Montlake don't, what next no smoking in bars?

Couldn't make the link work in the viaduct spin story - read the poll yourself and see that 70% want capacity kept to today's level and only about 22% want a surface option.

Posted by Kush | March 22, 2007 9:02 AM
24
Posted by Kush | March 22, 2007 9:04 AM
25

In regards the the item about the viaduct vote, it may be the people who have to live on top of it that want it gone, but it is those of us that rely on it to get to and from home and work on a daily basis that want it to stay. While all of you condo and hill dwellers are enjoying a stroll to the aquarium, I'll be stuck on a bus in traffic hoping I don't get fired for being late, again.

Posted by figdish | March 22, 2007 9:28 AM
26

Want to reduce car capacity and force people to use transit? How about making Olive, Pike, Pine, Madison, and Denny transit only between downtown and Capitol Hill. For some reason Erica Barnett doesn't worry about that, but hey, look at these new pictures of a 4 lane boulevard alongside the waterfront that magically has no traffic.

Posted by zzyzx | March 22, 2007 9:35 AM
27

Dave Coffman @22. Don't be ridiculous. The Stranger has never said tear down the viaduct and fuck West Seattle. They have been advocating tearing it down and adding significant transit to West Seattle. Everyone knows that tearing down the viaduct and doing nothing would be a disaster. That is not what anyone is advocating. The people who are advocating tearing down the viaduct are simply suggesting to replace it with mass transit, rather than another ugly viaduct. We all agree that people need to move around. The legitimate debate is whether moving them in cars on a viaduct is better or worse than moving them around on mass transit.

Posted by SDA in SEA | March 22, 2007 9:45 AM
28

#26 "No one drives there anymore it's too crowded" - ECB

Why not close down 20% of the bus service and see if the city dies. Close down ECB's line, I'll bet the people that use that line care about more it than the people that don't.

Posted by Kush | March 22, 2007 9:45 AM
29

Just to clarify, DENTON is not DALLAS. Not that I give two shits for either, but DENTON is a far northern hickburb so this story is not surprising. A headline would be deserved however if this happened in DALLAS in the Cedar Springs area.

Posted by Matthew | March 22, 2007 9:49 AM
30

I use the viaduct everyday, live in West Seattle and I vote.

Posted by mike | March 22, 2007 9:55 AM
31

That was funny that Herdball guy was laughin when he saw that in the book. I was laughin with him.
LOL I could hear that retranslated into
"It's right here in book you nut.
you wrote it right here. are you crazy its right here man. you got Alzheimers or somethin?"
Hunter S. Thompson must me rolling after that one.

Posted by Beatnik | March 22, 2007 9:57 AM
32

I spelt that wrong I meant Hardball. I wish you guys would get spell checker or something for your blog like my online college has.

Posted by Beatnik | March 22, 2007 9:59 AM
33

27, SDA -- But, what transit, and where is it? Buses? Ha, ha.

Posted by Lloyd Clydesdale | March 22, 2007 10:00 AM
34

As a West Seattlite, I voted "No" and "No" - West Seattle has pretty fuckin' rad bus service most of the time and if that were expanded to compensate for the loss of the viaduct, I would be thrilled.

West Seattle is full of drivers, though, and convincing them that their freeways aren't necessary is hard. The thought of the monorail taking up space that they could park their cars at Petco made most of them have a stroke.

Posted by Soupytwist | March 22, 2007 10:04 AM
35

@27: SDA, I agree there is a legitimate debate about how to move a lot of people around. Nevertheless, when I read what Dan posted above it pissed me off. Dan wrote:

"West Seattle and Magnolia supported the rebuild—in fact, the farther you get from the center of the city the greater the support for the rebuild. It’s the people that have to live with, and on top of, the viaduct that want the thing to come down."

It insinuated to me that we in W Seattle and other parts west of 99 don't have to "live with it". Sorry Dan, Josh and ECB, those that use it live with it every fucking day, thank you very much. It also suggests that those of us that aren't living in the central core and even those that work in it are insignificant and don't matter compared to those in ritzy central areas that we can't afford. Sorry. I've got a thick skin, but for a paper that claims to be the only newspaper in Seattle, it's horseshit.

As for the adding significant transit to West Seattle (or anywhere else west of Highway 99) I'll believe it when I see it. Not even The Stranger has come up with any plans beyond tear it down or "study it". That's not a transit plan. I support and want transit. But I can't support what is not there.

Posted by Dave Coffman | March 22, 2007 10:17 AM
36

Personally, as a voting west seattle-ite( no tunnle, yes re-build )I don't expect the staff at The Stranger to have all of the answers. Despite their best efforts, they never have. What I do expect is more of what this city is best at; lots of talk, pricy studies, re votes, re re votes, and no action until the viaduct crumbles to the ground killing hundreds. Why am I a non believer in the surface option? because it'll be several years until it happens and those of us whome it will affect most, those of us who can't walk or easily bike to wok will suffer the brunt on the inconveniance.

Posted by figdish | March 22, 2007 10:26 AM
37

The biggest mystery to me about the voting was that Harbor Island supports the viaduct. OK, I understand that the people who work there would; it makes their jobs possible. But WHO THE HELL LIVES ON HARBOR ISLAND?

Posted by Fnarf | March 22, 2007 10:41 AM
38

I'm from West Seattle, and voted no/no, so the results of that poll are disheartening, to a point.

That said, those results seem to me to be more about West Seattle residents a) not seeing any real, tangible, detailed plans present on how transit will be increased, and b) knowing that unless more specific transit plans are laid out and the surface option better described, they'd rather vote for a more reasonably priced, known quantity (the rebuild). I'm not making an excuse for this reasoning, but instead, am imploring the both transit authorities and the surface option leaders to more clearly and specificially lay out the facts of each of their plans. Come to WS community meetings, talk in detail about each of the plans, repeatedly. Unless folks in WS here some actually numbers and tangible solutions, those numbers are not likely to change, for the most part. There's only so much good I and my friends can do, telling people about the benefits of the surface option. Until someone in an official capacity talks to folks with a concrete plan, things aren't going to change.

Of course, it all comes down to the fact that if they'd actually do the damn research on the surface option and give people the data and numbers...but no, that might be too progressive. >sigh

And figdish, regardless of what happens, the surface option is going to be in play for a few years, regardless, and it's certainly feasible to begin with it much more quickly than rebuild or tunnel. Transit changes could start immediately...

Posted by rlv | March 22, 2007 10:42 AM
39

the only things better than the names given to gay bars are the titles given to gay porn....

Posted by Mike in MO | March 22, 2007 10:53 AM
40

Dave Coffman, your comment shows me that you aren't thinking about the whole city, just the small contingent that live in out-of-the-way places and expect a cheap and easy commute downtown. The voters rejected both the tunnel and the rebuild. I certainly hope you aren't suggesting that West Seattle and Magnolia residents are more important than the rest of the city (that even though they were voted down, they should still get what they want).

Posted by Andrew Hitchcock | March 22, 2007 11:08 AM
41

After finding the link to the voting patterns it seems that in addition to the UW students the biggest votes for the tunnel and against the viaduct were apartment and condo dwellers. The people that on average have been here the longest and will be here the longest voted for the viaduct. It also seems that blue collar districts voted for the viaduct. In fact, the more I look at the map, the clearer it is that except for Magnolia the biggest division is by income class.

Posted by Kush | March 22, 2007 11:09 AM
42

denton was my home for a long time. mable peabodys was the first gay bar i ever went to when i was 18 and just starting college. denton isnt the hickburb that someone else described it as being. it holds three colleges and plenty of liberal minded kids who im sure are planning some sort of fund raising efforts for a rebuild. this is just shitty no matter where it happens

Posted by matty yeswad | March 22, 2007 11:09 AM
43

I also live in West Seattle and voted no/no.

I have a hellish commute from West Seattle to Capitol Hill everyday and it's time for mass transit, not freeways.

You cannot build your way out of traffic congestion. If so, LA, Atlanta, etc would have the best traffic in the US instead of the worst.

The viaduct is going to be closed for a long time no matter what option is chosen and the hysterical denial of that fact by some "rebuild" supporters has gotten really crazy.

Posted by Original Andrew | March 22, 2007 11:19 AM
44

As a former Dentonite, I'll concur that Denton is NOT Dallas, and add that it's an oddly schizophrenic little exurban college city. Home to TWU, just across from the bar in question; and UNT, the largest University in DFW and the first in the South to integrate.

Posted by J | March 22, 2007 11:25 AM
45

Mike in MO @ 39,

I know! One of my faves: "Saving Ryan's Privates"

Then of course there are also classics like "Powertool," but I'm partial to the ones with puns.

For the bars, I remember an Eagle/Cuff style place in Boston coquettishly titled "The Ramrod." Hmm, wonder what happens there?

Posted by Original Andrew | March 22, 2007 11:27 AM
46

OG Andrew - I commute from WS to Cap Hill everyday too - maybe we should carpool?

Oh and Soupytwist, I voted down the monorail because I didn't want a 60 ft elevated concrete structure taking out trees going down California Avenue.

Y'all will vot for that concrete beast, but not the Viaduct. Your priorities are clear.

Posted by wsp | March 22, 2007 11:38 AM
47

@40: Andrew, I don't think that people in my position are more important. What I know is that everyone west of 99 is being left out of comprehensive transit planning. I'm all for doing 520 right as well, although I rarely use it. I want good transportation options so all of us can get where we want to go. BTW, if West Seattle is "out of the way" I'd hate to what you think of people that live in Burien, Kent or Bothell. We have to deal with the geography in which we live. Sorry.

In the end the surface option in my opinion primarily benefits the downtown developers and the tourist bureaus. Nobody I know will be able to afford an office or a condo down there. Without significant and rapid transit being placed to deal with the trips, you'll see gridlock that has been unknown in this area. It's the transit part that's important, and I'm all for that. But let's see it first.

Posted by Dave Coffman | March 22, 2007 11:48 AM
48

Good point, Dave. The DSA comrades downtown seem to think we citizens and taxpayers West of 99 don't exist.

We do.

Just because the 5th vote killed the Green Line monorail doesn't mean our rapidly growing population doesn't need mid to high-grade transit - we need it more than ever.

Just build SkyTrain along the Green Line route - it's elevated, it's light rail, it's proven, there are two versions in massive use in Vancouver BC.

Posted by Will in Seattle | March 22, 2007 12:00 PM
49

wsp - your love of trees is adorable. I hope that when we're forced to widen California to accomodate the traffic, you'll happily chain yourself to them.

Posted by Soupytwist | March 22, 2007 12:03 PM
50

wsp @ 46,

Uh, yeah, my priorities involve mass transit; have I not been clear on that?

Dave Coffman @ 47,

Have you been to Los Angeles recently?
If so, you've seen Seattle's future. It's rush hour there from 7 am to 10 pm.

With as many as 400,000 people moving to the Seattle area over the next 30 years, gridlock is inevitable without rapid mass transit.

Posted by Original Andrew | March 22, 2007 12:25 PM
51

Actually OG A - I wasn't kidding about carpooling. We should do it.

And as for you Mr. Twist, if we had light rail down the center of California Ave, like Interstate Ave in Portland, you could eliminate parking on the street, because people would be using the light rail and wouldn't need to drive. You don't need to widen the road, you need to give people an option to get out of their cars. California Ave is perfect for this because most business are along that arterial.

But a monorail down California? dumb.

Posted by wsp | March 22, 2007 12:48 PM
52

Original Andrew> the best porn title ever was "Log Jammin'". It was a fictional porn depicted in the Jeff Bridges movie, "The Big Lebowski."

Posted by Mike in MO | March 22, 2007 12:49 PM
53

Hmm, I've never been called "Mr." before, that's pretty weird.

wsp - I can't even begin to fathom your logic about street level transit being better than elevated. I am forced to say that your opinion is dumb.

Posted by Soupytwist | March 22, 2007 12:57 PM
54

Revelation 13:5 - Are we in this 42 month period?

Posted by tyrone ferrara | March 22, 2007 2:20 PM
55

#4&8 Andrew

I understand your outrage, but what are YOU going to do about it? As far as I know the places you mentioned, "The Cuff or Purr or Manray" and the many other gay hangouts in Seattle are not in danger of being torched. If they are, I'll be happy to do what I can.

All I can be is sorry for the people in Dallas and hope the people who did it are fully prosecuted and convicted. What else do you expect me to do? I am not in the position where I can quit my job and move to Dallas to fight the good fight.

Posted by elswinger | March 22, 2007 2:21 PM
56

Twist, do me a favor. Take a trip down to Portland. Just after you cross the bridge into Oregon, rather than continuing on the freeway into downtown, take the Interstate Ave exit. You get to follow the light rail line all the way into downtown. It is a great example of light rail.

Transit doesn't have to be elevated to be good.

Posted by wsp | March 22, 2007 3:04 PM
57

Couple of things about Magnolia:

-we aren't all rich or well off
(I live in a run-down rental and there are plenty of apartments and other less expensive than Capitol Hill (which I miss) type places. It's not all ritzy folks rich houses.

-it's not "out of the way" we are closer to downtown than Ballard for shits sakes!


Concur with West Seattlites opinions regarding:

-no real plan articulated

-no faith that real transit options will be available


Buses stuck in traffic and rail sharing the same damn road is not the answer.

I too constantly fear losing my job due to my bus being late.

I too cannot afford to live in the very center of the city, my allies in almost all other things should not make me feel like a second class citizen because of this. :(


And as far as the Pogroms go, instead of shouting at people to do SOMETHING! Perhaps suggesting something they can do would be better? When it's time to stand guard outside my allies bars to keep them from being burnt down let me know. For now, I think it's a little premature/infeasible...


Posted by K X One | March 22, 2007 7:08 PM
58

@50: Yeah I've been to LA lately and it sucks. And you know why it sucks? Because Angelinos also dinked for years to do anything about rapid transit. They too have had to build more roads while at the same time they have been building transit. In my opinion, our removing 99 is the equivalent of LA removing I-405 through the western part of the city. That doesn't solve anything. And SoCal has about 60 different freeways. We have about 5.

I've been consistently for building as much good transit as quickly as possible. What I am not in favor of is starting to take away capacity before we even have a plan. That's what the surface option is in my opinion. Spend the next 30 years putting in the infrastructure for rapid transit and doing Moon's 1000 little fixes and then let's discuss taking away the roads capacity that is no longer needed.

More people are coming to Puget Sound. I can't see the logic in removing one of two through routes without something at least started to address that. Given the speed of transportation planning here, just starting to study it means squat. That alone will take 5 years. ST2 addresses almost nothing for several hundred thousand people west of Hwy 99. Until they or some transit maven addresses that problem, I don't want to take away existing capacity until we have replacement capacity figured out and in place. It's that simple.

Posted by Dave Coffman | March 22, 2007 7:26 PM

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