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1

Maybe I'm missing something regarding the whole WTC7 thing, but the CNN guy, as well as the CNN crawl, says merely that the building is on fire and MAY collapse. I don't see how that proves anything.

Posted by leaky tin hat | March 1, 2007 8:00 AM
2

I fail to see any evidence that these news people could conspire successfully to get dinner without screwing up, let alone cover up the biggest conspiracy of all time. If 9/11 was an inside job, the number of people who would have had to be in on it would number in the tens of thousands. Have any of these kooks ever seen what goes on inside a news studio? But no, I suppose Aaron Brown is just getting the secret call, report the building down now, we're seven minutes ahead of schedule. Right.

I am coming to realize that the single most irritating part of being alive in the next twenty years is hearing these conspiracy shitheads talk.

Posted by Fnarf | March 1, 2007 8:07 AM
3

The big story here is not just that the BBC was reporting the collapse of building 7 (also known as The Salomon Brothers building) 20 minutes before it collapsed (with the building clearly visible behind the reporter who described its collapse before having her feed cut off abruptly just before it actually collapsed).

The big story is that the BBC denies none of this, but says they lost all their original tapes for the day of September 11, 2001.

BBC editor Richard Porter writes:

"4. We no longer have the original tapes of our 9/11 coverage (for reasons of cock-up, not conspiracy). So if someone has got a recording of our output, I'd love to get hold of it. We do have the tapes for our sister channel News 24, but the don't help clear up the issue one way or another."

Call bullshit, Dan!

Posted by Phil | March 1, 2007 8:26 AM
4

Fnarf, I think you've said this before:

If 9/11 was an inside job, the number of people who would have had to be in on it would number in the tens of thousands.

First, consider the number of people who knew about the Manhattan Project and kept it under wraps.

Second, it wouldn't require keeping tens of thousands of mouths shut. See Attack Scenario 404 for an example of how this could have been pulled off:

The case that the 9/11/01 attack was an inside job can be made quite apart from any specific theory as to how it was accomplished, by simply demonstrating that only insiders had the means and opportunity to execute key elements of the attack. The true nature of such an operation is undoubtedly hidden behind layer upon layer of cover story, and its details may never be discovered. Speculative theories of the operation, while not verifiable, nonetheless can be useful in answering important questions about the attack, such as the size of the conspiracy required to carry it out.

Attack Scenario 404 is such a theory. It shows that, although the attack employed a variety of sophisticated communications and weapons technologies, all of these technologies were available "off-the-shelf", having been developed by secret programs ostensibly for other purposes. Specific tasks required to fulfill the mission were outsourced to companies providing strict confidentiality and working on a need-to-know basis.

This scenario shows that, through their positions of access in the military command structure, a very small group of people would have been able to appropriate these technologies to carry out the attack. While the attack is engineered by a core of only a dozen people, vast numbers of people facilitate the attack and cover-up, for the most part unknowingly, by simply doing what they normally do in their positions: promote and protect their agencies and the status quo. The public at large participates in the cover-up by failing to question the attack and instead believing the relatively comforting myth of bin Laden.

Posted by Phil | March 1, 2007 8:44 AM
5

You're a kook, Phil. Seek help.

Posted by Fnarf | March 1, 2007 8:47 AM
6

i'm sorry, but that is just so fucking far fetched as to be completely unworthy of half a second of thought. popular mechanics did a piece a while back talking about all the silly theories, and how they are all bullshit.

maybe the BBC's big secret is that the reporter wasn't really at the scene and was in front of a time delayed blue screen.

Posted by konstantconsumer | March 1, 2007 8:48 AM
7

Yes, the Manhattan Project was such a great secret that no one has ever heard of it to this day. Hmm. It seems that some stories may have leaked out slightly after their bang went off.

Posted by Fnarf | March 1, 2007 8:54 AM
8

Fnarf, it didn't take long for you to avoid debating the facts and resort, once again, to name-calling. Thanks.

Posted by Phil | March 1, 2007 8:57 AM
9

You don't have any facts to debate, Philly Phil Phil. Just a loud ponging noise. Your little screed posted above, "Scenario 404", which you undoubtedly copied off of some website, is a perfect example of why you can't be argued with: it's insane.

Think about it, Phil; how could they have pulled of this gigantic conspiracy, and fooled everyone in the world with this "comforting myth of bin Laden", when they can't even fool a complete tool like you?

Posted by Fnarf | March 1, 2007 9:07 AM
10
the Manhattan Project was such a great secret that no one has ever heard of it to this day.

It was such a secret that no one ouside the project knew about it while it was happening. Tens (hundreds?) of thousands of people kep it secret.

According to a Zogby poll conducted last year (don'r have the ref. on me at the moment bu it's easy to find) 42% of Americans think there has been a coverup of the facts surrounding the 9/11 attack. So this story is slipping out, too. What's your point?

Posted by Phil | March 1, 2007 9:16 AM
11

It is possible to believe that the story is more complicated without believing that a cabal ran the thing from start to finish.

Clearly someone set demolitions in the building in advance. There was plenty of advance warning that something big was comming. The CIA had offices in the WTC. Someone was in the process of getting the gold out of the vault at the time of the attacks. The NYT in the news racks that morning had a front page story of an immenant terrorist attack, but the news sources thought is was a nuke in the city.

If you look at it on the basis that a bunch of different agencies had different information, and were acting on their own political interests or financial interests, then you can easily get to a scenerio where the advance info sent the CIA to prepare to distroy anything contaminated by a dirty bomb in Manhattan but still open to Jihadists in a post apocolyptic Manhattan.

Then it didn't turn out quite as they expected, but the thermite was already in place and the fires were setting it off at random. At that point they had to trigger the controlled demo.

Posted by RainMonkey | March 1, 2007 9:26 AM
12

This particular conspiracy theory is very weak - it would be totally unnecessary to tell the BBC that a building will collapse, because they can report it when it happens, right? This is the kind of conspiracy theory that give conspiracy theories a bad name.

Be that as it may, Fnarf, you are being an asshole. Fine if you don't believe in the conspiracy, but your posts are in the same style as neocons who discredit by insult and hyperbole. And if it is true that "the single most irritating part of being alive in the next twenty years is hearing these conspiracy shitheads talk," (which is patent bullshit in the face of the Iraq War, but I digress) why don't you quit insulting them and just ignore them?

Posted by Jude Fawley | March 1, 2007 9:27 AM
13

Eli, what have you started?

Posted by Gabriel | March 1, 2007 9:35 AM
14
popular mechanics did a piece a while back talking about all the silly theories, and how they are all bullshit.

If you really believe that, please see this analysis of the Popular Mechanics article. It begins:

The article's approach is to identify and attack a series of claims which it asserts represent the whole of 9/11 skepticism. It gives the false impression that these claims, several of which are clearly absurd, represent the breadth of challenges to the official account of the flights, the World Trade Center attack, and the Pentagon attack. Thus it purports to debunk conspiracy theorists' physical-evidence-based claims, without even acknowledging that there are other grounds on which to question the official story. Indeed many 9/11 researchers don't even address the physical evidence, preferring instead to focus on who had the the means, motive, and opportunity to carry out the attack. I summarize some of this evidence at the end of this article.
Posted by Phil | March 1, 2007 9:43 AM
15

No S, Gabriel.

look, as far as JFK, the moon landing, 9/11 etc, NO ONE will ever be able to prove or disprove anything. There are plenty of people out there that will investigate, but at the end of the day those in power will go to nefarious lengths to keep everyone from knowing the truth.

The way I see it, I can exist without knowing with certainty the truth about JFK, the moon, or 9/11. The official line could be true, and the conspiracy theories could be too. I'll never know, so why should I give a F?

Maybe that's an ostrich perspective, but I'd rather have my sanity...

Posted by Mike in MO | March 1, 2007 9:51 AM
16

Phil,

Actually, while the number of people who KNEW about the Manhattan Project probably numbered in the tens of thousands, there are a number of factors that would easily mitigate the ability of nearly all of them to "spill the beans" as it were.

For one thing, only a handful of the scientists and military working primarily at the Los Alamos facility actually knew the full extent and scope of the project. The construction workers to who built the Hanford and Oak Ridge facilities knew almost nothing about what it was they were creating, so at most they would only have been able to say something along the lines of "we built something really, really big", so not much to go on there.

Even the people running the enrichment processing were privvy to only the barest need-to-know details; some might have been able to put two-and-two together and make reasonably educated guesses, but that's all they would have been.

The people at Los Alamos, where the bombs were designed, built and tested were under the highest levels of military restriction possible. An entire city, designed to house tens of thousands of scientists, engineers and technicians, as well as their families, was built literally in the middle of nowhere, and every single individual was under constant survelience for the duration of the project, including the handful that were allowed off-site during that time.

Not to mention the fact that access to media was also severely restricted; not like today, where anyone with a cellphone can have video playing on a web site that can be viewed by tens of millions of people in an instant.

The notion that the U.S. Government, especially the current Administration, with the presumed abettment of the military, the mass media, plus tens of thousands of individuals, could pull off such a feat in plain sight of the general public in this day-and-age, not only defies logic, but is just downright delusional.

Posted by COMTE | March 1, 2007 9:56 AM
17
maybe the BBC's big secret is that the reporter wasn't really at the scene and was in front of a time delayed blue screen.

KK, do you really believe that the BBC would conspire to "lose" all their original tapes of news coverage for September 11, 2001, and also to repeatedly have Google Video remove clips of it, and also to have Internet Archive remove their BBC archive -- all to avoid admitting that they were using a blue screen behind the reporter who described WTC7 falling 20 minutes before it really happened?

Does anyone here think it's common for the BBC to lose all tapes of their broadcast -- especially for a day of such historical significance? Please don't lose the point in all the news here. This is what they publicly claim has happened.

Posted by Phil | March 1, 2007 9:56 AM
18

Oh, for chrissake. "Indeed many 9/11 researchers don't even address the physical evidence, preferring instead to focus on who had the the means, motive, and opportunity to carry out the attack." In other words, many 9/11 researchers are so full of shit they don't even believe their own theory has any evidence behind it.

Posted by Fnarf | March 1, 2007 9:57 AM
19

Please god don't let Slog be ruined by 9/11 conspiracy arguments! Work is going to be slow today and if this keeps up I'm going to have to play "Breakout."
Jen: How about some stuff about that art critic and whatever he did!
Seattle Weekly: Write a comment about how craven the Flm Forum is!
Charles: Why don't you write about how disgusting menstration is?!
Savage: Didn't a mom kill her children recently?
Erica: Viaduct! Viaduct!

Posted by postergirl | March 1, 2007 10:00 AM
20

I'm with Mike in MO #15

Posted by monkey | March 1, 2007 10:00 AM
21

I'm serious, Phil: find a new hobby. Get a job. Do SOMETHING interesting and valuable with your life, because this lunacy will consume you and turn you into a gibbering loon. I've seen it happen to many JFK kooks.

Your BBC conspiracy is so threadbare you can read a newspaper through it.

Posted by Fnarf | March 1, 2007 10:03 AM
22

Fnarf,
why so much anger directed at Phil? Big deal if he wants to question the official account of 911. Are you really that concerned that he'll be stuck in some conspiracy zone for the rest of his life? Who cares? Why do you care?

I'm not sold on any of the conspiracy theories, but I don't think that means people shouldn't question things.

Posted by BD | March 1, 2007 10:06 AM
23

Did Fnarf just tell someone, "do something interesting and valuable with your life"?
Is posting 100 comments a day on the slog interesting and valuable?

Posted by huh? | March 1, 2007 10:10 AM
24

Fnarf, please go read The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions And Distortions, by David Ray Griffin. Come back when you know what you're talking about.

Posted by Phil | March 1, 2007 10:11 AM
25

Anyone interested in an honest and journalistic exploration of what happened at the WTC site should read 102 Minutes.

It systematically goes through engineering reports, interviews with survivors, telephone transcripts from those who did not on a minute to minute basis from just before the first plane struck to the collapse of both towers. Any honest and thoughful consideration should START at the best source of information available, and nothing is better than MANY first hand accounts compiled together.

One of my friends works at the strutural engineering firm that designed the original world trade center towers. The design was brilliant and astoundingly efficient and concequently susceptible to exactly the sort of collapse we saw, without controlled explosion or demolition. Period.

For anyone really curious, there are several serious and well researched reports -- starting with the American Society of Civil Engineers report. The AT&T building right here in Seattle has the same basic plan and engineering, if anyone wants to see how the building worked first hand....

Posted by golob | March 1, 2007 10:20 AM
26

Phil, I know more than you about every subject imaginable. I can say that with confidence because you prove with every word you write that you're a fucking idiot. I'm not going to read your idiotic book, because I've read plenty on the subject. The conspiracy people have NOTHING, no facts, no coherent theories, no nothing. Not only that but by your own lights they CANNOT ever have any of those things, because they reject the very idea of empirical evidence. All the easier to descend into the depths of kook fog.

BD, the reason I'm angry is just that: it's anti-science. It's like astrology. It's not just a harmless pursuit of stupidity; it actively seeks to get in the way of reason and sense.

Posted by Fnarf | March 1, 2007 10:25 AM
27

Fnarf: I feel sorry for you. You are asleep.

The rest of you: if there is a chance that the government is covering up what happened on 9/11, don't they owe us a real explanation? Even if Bush/Cheney are not responsible, the 9/11 Commission Report is a farce, the FEMA report is a farce and the NIST report is a farce.

Regarding the BBC video/CNN reporting:

1) Please explain again how they would know 20 minutes in advance that the building would collapse? No, really. HOW COULD THEY POSSIBLY KNOW THIS? Saying that it wouldn't accomplish anything to tell them doesn't change the fact that they knew.

2) Why would CNN report that the building MAY collapse due to fire? As we know, no steel framed building in the history of the world had ever collapsed due to fire before 9/11.

3) I also agree with Phil: how could the BBC "lose" all footage of that day? Note that this doesn't necessarily imply that the BBC is complicit in a conspiracy, merely that SOMEONE is trying to cover something up.

Posted by bucky | March 1, 2007 10:26 AM
28

these news people could conspire successfully to get dinner without screwing up

Forget the news people. There's no fucking way the Bush administration could pull this off. It's one thing to have thought it was possible in the immediate aftermath, but one thing we've all learned in the past six years is that Bush et al. are a bunch of hopeless incompetents.


42% of Americans think there has been a coverup of the facts surrounding the 9/11 attack.

And that proves what exactly? How many Americans still believe Saddam had WMD or was behind 9/11?

However, I will cop to thinking that there might be a cover up of certain facts. It wouldn't surprise me if United 93 was shot down and the government is covering that up. No idea why, it would have been completely justified. Believing some facts have been covered up does not equal thinking the government orchestrated the whole thing.

Posted by keshmeshi | March 1, 2007 10:27 AM
29

golob, out of curiosity, which collapse theory are you referring to?

Posted by bucky | March 1, 2007 10:33 AM
30

bucky, I'll meet you at the next post... ;p

Posted by golob | March 1, 2007 10:40 AM
31

Fnarf,

you're not going to be able to silence all of the 911 conspiracists out there, let alone Phil.

So, I'm not sure what good it does to get as upset as you seem to be over this.

Some of Phil's points have nothing to do with science, by the way. Some of them are political. So, your "anti-science" remark doesn't work against those.

Mike in MO's comment can be useful if you want to avoid headaches with conspiracy theorists.

Posted by BD | March 1, 2007 10:42 AM
32

If 9/11 was a big conspiracy (to what aim I have yet to understand), wouldn't it be logical to conclude that the president would have more preparatory material than My Pet Goat for his official response?

The biggest conspiracy here is the coverup of the colossal failures of the administration, intelligence and congress before the attack.

Posted by Butter | March 1, 2007 10:51 AM
33

LMAO @ 19!

Posted by Mike in MO | March 1, 2007 10:56 AM
34
Posted by hyperlinker | March 1, 2007 10:58 AM
35

Butter,

The events of 9/11 have been used to instill fear in the American people, justify the war in Afganistan, the war in Iraq, the Patriot Act, the Department of Homeland Security, the "War on Terror" in general and the continued erosion of our civil liberties.

To what end? The continued global dominance of the US and its corporate sponsors.

Posted by bucky | March 1, 2007 11:06 AM
36

Why would CNN report that the building MAY collapse due to fire? As we know, no steel framed building in the history of the world had ever collapsed due to fire before 9/11.

Well, two had already collapsed that day, primarily due to fire. Hard to imagine why reporters might assume that the third would also collapse.

Posted by keshmeshi | March 1, 2007 11:10 AM
37

Often times when I see people confront the conspiracy theories, they get caught up in the ineptitude of the administration and cry impossible. Don't think about bad guys first.

How come two 110-story buildings turned to dust because they were struck by airplanes? They didn't just collapse. They disintegrated. How is this possible? What happened to the vertical steel cores of the buildings. I'll buy the pancake theory if there was some accounting for the record-player spindle that should be there. If these buildings were being demolished could the job have been done any neater than the way they came down? Sure, but not much. Right? And building 7 is something else completely. What's the story there?

Posted by Gugh | March 1, 2007 11:10 AM
38

@37. See here for your answer, or just read the ASCE report.

Posted by golob | March 1, 2007 11:16 AM
39

@37,

Yeah, what is the story with building 7. Why would it be intentionally demolished? If our government was behind the attacks on 9/11, it already would have accomplished its goals. Why bother with any other buildings?

Posted by keshmeshi | March 1, 2007 12:37 PM
40

To those people who haven't studied the evidence, this new revelation is just another case of "Well, bizarre things happen; this proves nothing."

To those of us deeply acquainted with the exhaustive evidence indicating an inside job, this new revelation is just another exhibit in a tall stack.

Regardless of one's belief on the subject, the incident proves that someone informed several news agencies that the building had collapsed before it did. The real question is who did the informing, how did they know, and why did they inform the news agencies?

To the last question, a speculative answer can be found in the fact that the information also identified the "cause" of the collapse as damage resulting from debris from the original attack. The goal may have been to provide a false explanation that could be accepted in place of what would otherwise immediately be perceived as a controlled demolition (watch the videos!) Numerous examples have been presented showing how certain insiders deliberately manipulated public perception within hours of the attack. To such an extent that "everyone knows" Osama bin Laden is responsible, yet the FBI has never gone on record as such.

Posted by lbro | March 1, 2007 1:19 PM
41

WTC7 fell in 6.6 seconds with a kink in the top...see the vids, they are all over if you just used the Google. How could a building, asymetrically damaged, fall STRAIGHT into its own footprint, missing a building next to it by 24'?
It is not possible. And the truth that elements within our own government pulled the whole thing off grow with each hour. Listen to the interviews of firefighters and policemen WHO WERE THERE!

Anyone who isn't stupid or too scared can see the facts. But don't count on TV to tell you. Precisely BECAUSE it is not on TV is why you should suspect it.
When Kevin Barret or Jim Fetzer or ALex Jones IS on air, why do they always try to make light of the whole issue of 'inside job?' - IT IS THEIR JOB TO PROMOTE PROPAGANDA- see Operation Mockingbird. --Just look who OWNS the mainstream media (a minsnomer because WE are the mainstream now).
THEIR OWN POLLS SHOW that 86% believe something's real fishy about the whole story the guv is promoting about 9-11...and now the media has been caught as complicit. See the CNN clip too.
What a bombshell, write your local radio/TV stations - call in, send emails far and wide, and let's get these satanic f(&ks into a military brig.

Posted by cr | March 1, 2007 1:20 PM
42

My name is Robin Hordon and I am a former air traffic controller who used to work the Boston Air Traffic Control Center in Nashua, NH and I have inside information that will be exposed soon in Dr. David Ray Griffin's book: "Debunking 9/11 Debunking: An Answer to Popular Mechanics and Other Defenders of the Official Conspiracy Theory". Existing debunkers of the so-called "911 conspiracies and their associated NUTS" will be ill served by this powerful expose. Puegeot Sounders read an awful lot, I suggest that they look into this book. The attack on 9/11/2001 was just another event in the long running tradition of "False Flag" operations used by our own government to RAMP UP the "lets go to war emotions" of the citizens of this country. The best known examples of "False Flag" operations would be: the "bombing of the Maine" leading to the Spanish American War, the "pre-known" attack on Pearl Harbor leading to WWII [see C-SPAN archives], and the Gulf of Tonkin incident leading to the major escalation of the Vietnam War. The "911truthleadstoPEACE" movement sees, and has significant proof that the events of 9/11/2001 served the same "False Flag" purposes to eventually attack the country of Iraq. In each of the aforementioned "False Flag" attacks, there was little support for any of these wars BEFORE the attacks, and then there was MORE, if not high levels of support for engaging in these wars AFTER each attack. There are more examples, and there are many more plans and details already established in the public domain, and they are indisputed. In fact, the neo-cons exposed such a plan for Iraq in a document called "The Project for a New American Century" [PNAC] several years before 9/11/2001.

Slowly and reliably, the "911truthleadstoPEACE" movements all across the world are peeling away the 9/11 truth onion layer after layer. Consequently, such bits of evidence as seen in the BBC news clip are being collected all around this very same world. Puegeot Sounders should not be the last on board this amazing journey into governmental accountability. Our country and our world need it badly. I suggest that folks spend some time doing some simple research on the web, or, better yet, read some prestigeous books by credited authors. It does seem customary around here. RDH

Posted by Robin Hordon | March 1, 2007 1:43 PM
43

Thanks Robin, you've now officially moved the thread into full-blown tin-foil hat territory (Phil, you're a kook, but Robin has you beat hands down).

Posted by COMTE | March 1, 2007 1:58 PM
44

COMTE...regarding how many were "in the know"...

Robin Hordon checks in again...

Regarding an estimate about how many in the federal government actually "needed to know" about all of this before hand, a good estimate is between eight and twelve people. All others were just doing their jobs like they had been doing for years and years, or in some instances, doing their "NEW JOBS" as of June, 2001. Bush may not have known. Here's the list. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Myers, and moles at the following facilities: NEADS [air defense sector], Boston ARTCC, New York ARTCC, Cleveland ARTCC, Washington ARTCC, Indianapolis ARTCC, FAA HQ, FAA Command Center.

Sorry, but that's it...everyone else's normal jobs were positioned around the attacks and they did not need to know, or do anything different on 9/11/2001. The key is "timing" of the emergency/hijacked aircraft and the total failure of a defensive response by our fighters.

Regarding the oh-so-needed "real estate deal" on Manahattan, there were many players within the real esate community, the investment community, the SEC, the Justice Department and local governance but they have covered their tracks a bit better than the US government has. Soon, you all will learn much more about this once the true information about Guilianni begins to surface as his bid for president gains momentum. Again, reading is key...so don't be too surprised at what you learn.

Are you aware that on the evening of 9/10/2001, Donald Rumsfeld admitted on the news to "missing" two TRILLION DOLLARS in the pentagon's budget and expenditures? HMMM...and such records were stored in the very part of the pentagon that was hit and destroyed. HMMM...RDH

Posted by Robin Hordon | March 1, 2007 2:15 PM
45

COMTE, would you care to avoid the name-calling and address any factual errors you found in this discussion?

Posted by Phil | March 1, 2007 2:26 PM
46

How about the factual error that it's Puget Sound, not Puegeot. Or even Peugeot, the French automobile manufacturer...

Posted by Megan | March 1, 2007 2:40 PM
47

That's a typo, not a factual error. Slog doesn't allow editing comments.

Next?

Posted by Phil | March 1, 2007 2:56 PM
48

I'd be more than happy to, Phil. As soon as you provide some.

Posted by COMTE | March 1, 2007 3:24 PM
49

Calling people 'tin foil hatters' is getting old, it is juvenile, and it shows your ignorance. It is not a put down to call some one ignorant. It only means you don't know. Now if you don't care to know, then you are not only igmorant, but you are foolish.
Because WE ARE IN THE RIGHT when we state that 9-11 was an inside job --WTC7 falling in 6.6 secs (freefall) MAKES it impossible to be anything else. It's called physics, Commie, I mean Comte. (Now that was a slam).
And for you to label others and puff yourself up when it is you and your friends who will lose if they do another one is a crying shame. WHat do you gain by sticking with the lies of 9-11? PLease ask yourself that.
Grow up, and pull the cotton out of your ears.

Posted by cr | March 1, 2007 4:19 PM
50

The real issue is not whether a relatively few commentors agree or disagree. Why is there no investigation by media? Stranger, what are you waiting for. Are you scared!

Posted by Psmaul Ehlien | March 1, 2007 4:53 PM
51

Um, yeaaahhh, cr. That's why the black helicopters and the guys with the sunglasses and earphones follow you around all the time, right?

Anybody know what the opposite of "Occam's Razor" is? 'Cause these guys got it - in spades.

Still, it's all good for a chuckle, if only the paranoids didn't take themselves so gosh-darned seriously...

Posted by COMTE | March 1, 2007 8:31 PM
52

I never even THOUGHT about 9/11 till I heard some guys on KEXP last year.

Since then I've learned a lot about this sort of thing.

The CIA created and funded "al Qaeda" for starters.

The hijackers trained on US military bases.

OKC was an inside job.

WTC 1993 was an inside job.

There were no "incubator babies" in Kuwait.

[insert what Robin said here]

[add even more examples of war-triggering deceptions--I'll spare you]

The Federal Reserve is as about as federal as Federal Express.

The income tax is illegal.

JP Morgan bought the United States in 1896.

The founding fathers warned it'd be the end of our republic if bankers ever got control over the nation's money supply.

"Give me control of a nation's money supply, and I care not who makes the laws."

--Mayer Rothschild

Money-printers enslave wage-workers.

If knowledge is power, the ability to keep secrets is the ability to keep that knowledge, and secret societies have done just that for the past 6,000 years.

America escaped their last ramp-up to rule the world during the height of the British Empire. That fact--along with our Declaration of Independence, our Constitution, and most importantly our Bill of Rights--is what made us the greatest nation on Earth, the light of freedom in a world of tyranny, and the hope of oppressed people the world over.

It always happens the same way. First they infiltrate. Then they take over. They initiate others into it one step at a time. By the time you get what you're involved in, they've got enough dirt on YOU to BURY YOU, literally if need be.

Homosexual "republicans" is the tip of the iceberg.

Hillary bashed a guy in the head so bad he went to the hospital, and only disclosed what had happened when the doc advised he'd have to call the cops: He'd caught Hillary in bed with a female intern.

Again, only the tip of the iceberg.

Pedophilia's rampant among the ruling class. Hard to believe, but do some research. You'll see. Start with "Conspiracy of Silence."

It gets worse.

Bush's grandfather Prescott was a Nazi banker, had his assets seized by J Edgar Hoover, who also named W's daddy as the man most responsible for Kennedy's death.

[If you're curious about that last bit, watch "JFK II: The Bush Connection." Low production values, but solid research, clear narration, schematics to illustrate the complex web of connections, and even moments of levity. The Bush stuff starts about 45 mins into it.]

See, if you REALLY want power, you've got to do something MAJOR, like kill a Kennedy.

I was in Russia when JFK JR died, so I never even knew about it 'til I saw "The Assassination of JFK JR: Murder by Manchurian Candidate." It's amazing that W disappeared for three days at that time...

We're in the middle of it, people. They're at it again. Do you think the Germans saw it coming 60 years ago? Do you think we're any different? Hitler burned his own capitol building, staged attacks along the Polish border, grabbed a German prisoner, dressed him in the Polish Army's uniform, shot him, and showed his apparently Polish corpse all over Germany as proof. Support for mobilization zoomed. Hitler invaded Poland, and WWII ensued.

See, they're all about population reduction at this point. They're social engineers. "Apocalypto" shows how it started. Thinkers got math, applied it to the heavens, predicted eclipses, got power over the warrior kings, built pyramids, ziggurats, temples, and churches (hence so much about "stone masons" in this field).

Ruling behind the scenes, people!

Invisible Government 101!

Social Engineering for the ruling class!

Let me ask you something--do you think our propaganda hasn't got more sophisticated right along with everything else?

My dad used to tell me and my sister to turn down commercials. "But we only watch the GOOD commercials," we'd argue. "We're not really listening, anyway."

"It doesn't matter," he'd say, "They're insidious." Then he'd get mad and go on a rant about "the capitalist bastards." I took it all with a grain of salt, of course.

For me, rebellion meant TRUSTING the government.

Now I don't think my father went far enough...

Hey, Stranger--why don't you distinguish yourselves from all the OTHER NEWSPAPERS IN TOWN and COVER THIS STORY. "Seattle's Only Newspaper?" What a joke!

Hope you enjoyed the read.

Now, do I have to attach my own hands to this cross, or is anyone going to start doing some nailing?

Come on, people! Let's get this show on the road! THX-1138, here we come!

Wait, has anyone seen my tinfoil? I'm getting worried about the cosmic radiation again.

Or maybe someone could prescribe something for my "condition?"

Enjoy the target practice. If you need me to go and get you some throwing stones, just say the word.

I've said my piece.

Posted by jerit | March 2, 2007 5:47 AM
53

I never even THOUGHT about 9/11 till I heard some guys on KEXP last year.

Since then I've learned a lot about this sort of thing.

The CIA created and funded "al Qaeda" for starters.

The hijackers trained on US military bases.

OKC was an inside job.

WTC 1993 was an inside job.

There were no "incubator babies" in Kuwait.

[insert what Robin said here]

[add even more examples of war-triggering deceptions--I'll spare you]

The Federal Reserve is as about as federal as Federal Express.

The income tax is illegal.

JP Morgan bought the United States in 1896.

The founding fathers warned it'd be the end of our republic if bankers ever got control over the nation's money supply.

"Give me control of a nation's money supply, and I care not who makes the laws."

--Mayer Rothschild

Money-printers enslave wage-workers.

If knowledge is power, the ability to keep secrets is the ability to keep that knowledge, and secret societies have done just that for the past 6,000 years.

America escaped their last ramp-up to rule the world during the height of the British Empire. That fact--along with our Declaration of Independence, our Constitution, and most importantly our Bill of Rights--is what made us the greatest nation on Earth, the light of freedom in a world of tyranny, and the hope of oppressed people the world over.

It always happens the same way. First they infiltrate. Then they take over. They initiate others into it one step at a time. By the time you get what you're involved in, they've got enough dirt on YOU to BURY YOU, literally if need be.

Homosexual "republicans" is the tip of the iceberg.

Hillary bashed a guy in the head so bad he went to the hospital, and only disclosed what had happened when the doc advised he'd have to call the cops: He'd caught Hillary in bed with a female intern.

Again, only the tip of the iceberg.

Pedophilia's rampant among the ruling class. Hard to believe, but do some research. You'll see. Start with "Conspiracy of Silence."

It gets worse.

Bush's grandfather Prescott was a Nazi banker, had his assets seized by J Edgar Hoover, who also named W's daddy as the man most responsible for Kennedy's death.

[If you're curious about that last bit, watch "JFK II: The Bush Connection." Low production values, but solid research, clear narration, schematics to illustrate the complex web of connections, and even moments of levity. The Bush stuff starts about 45 mins into it.]

See, if you REALLY want power, you've got to do something MAJOR, like kill a Kennedy.

I was in Russia when JFK JR died, so I never even knew about it 'til I saw "The Assassination of JFK JR: Murder by Manchurian Candidate." It's amazing that W disappeared for three days at that time...

We're in the middle of it, people. They're at it again. Do you think the Germans saw it coming 60 years ago? Do you think we're any different? Hitler burned his own capitol building, staged attacks along the Polish border, grabbed a German prisoner, dressed him in the Polish Army's uniform, shot him, and showed his apparently Polish corpse all over Germany as proof. Support for mobilization zoomed. Hitler invaded Poland, and WWII ensued.

See, they're all about population reduction at this point. They're social engineers. "Apocalypto" shows how it started. Thinkers got math, applied it to the heavens, predicted eclipses, got power over the warrior kings, built pyramids, ziggurats, temples, and churches (hence so much about "stone masons" in this field).

Ruling behind the scenes, people!

Invisible Government 101!

Social Engineering for the ruling class!

Let me ask you something--do you think our propaganda hasn't got more sophisticated right along with everything else?

My dad used to tell me and my sister to turn down commercials. "But we only watch the GOOD commercials," we'd argue. "We're not really listening, anyway."

"It doesn't matter," he'd say, "They're insidious." Then he'd get mad and go on a rant about "the capitalist bastards." I took it all with a grain of salt, of course.

For me, rebellion meant TRUSTING the government.

Now I don't think my father went far enough...

Hey, Stranger--why don't you distinguish yourselves from all the OTHER NEWSPAPERS IN TOWN and COVER THIS STORY. "Seattle's Only Newspaper?" What a joke!

Hope you enjoyed the read.

Now, do I have to attach my own hands to this cross, or is anyone going to start doing some nailing?

Come on, people! Let's get this show on the road! THX-1138, here we come!

Wait, has anyone seen my tinfoil? I'm getting worried about the cosmic radiation again.

Or maybe someone could prescribe something for my "condition?"

Enjoy the target practice. If you need me to go and get you some throwing stones, just say the word.

I've said my piece.

Posted by jerit | March 2, 2007 5:52 AM
54

So boring - he had to post it twice!

Posted by COMTE | March 2, 2007 4:02 PM
55

The problem that 9-11 Truth doubters have with this being too big of a conspiracy to keep silent is non sensical. Only a few people needed to know the entire story and some of them were most likely present during Cheney's secret White House energy task force meeting. Why did he fight disclosure all the way to the Supreme Court where he and Antonin Scalia went on a little hunting trip?

All you have to do is compartmentalize the information, and use money to silence the rest. If you "official story" guys want to really know then you should support the formation of a truly independent commission with full subpoena powers. Then we can put certain persons of interest on the stand and they will know that they might be facing life in prison or execution. We'll start getting testimonies. Until then, remove the scale from your eyes and watch the buildings fall down. There's something there that should really leap out at everybody, but few are seeing it. The fact that so many still doubt the 9-11 truth claims I think has something to do with people watching too many Hollywood stunt scenes where people and objects defy physics. The buildings were brought down by controlled means, not by the airplanes.

Insulting people who believe in the controlled demolition cause is a typical Karl Rovian, NeoCon ploy and is getting pretty weak and tiresome.

Posted by Choco | March 3, 2007 11:34 AM
56

For all you folks who look at us "911truthleadstoPEACE"-ers as wild eyed conspriacy nuts, I am fully on your side when "loose ends" such as Jerit take what is some fair, accurate, provable and basic research leading to reasonable conclusions and further leading to our governement behaving badly as it has repeatedly done in the past, and twist into wild and crazy destinations that are not directly "on subject".

Jerit is but one example of MANY in Seattle who in the past have "compromised" our credibility. And that Jerit has done this several times now serves as a good example of the deliberate "undermining and internal self-destruction" of many such progressive groups such as the anti-war movement has had to make its way through over the decades.

I STATE LOUDLY that fellows like Jerit ARE NOT representative of the millions of serious and sober patriots, including some very solid citizens in Seattle, who are seeking 9/11 truth so that we can get our democracy back, or at least get it far more healthy than it is right now.

Come see Dr. David Ray Griffin in May at the Town Hall and you will get a far more balanced view of the levels of credibility of those who hold responsible positions in the 9/11 Truth Movement. Dr. Griffin is a far better example of who we are and what we are up to than is Jerit.

Now, Jerit has every right to speak as he wishes and I will defend that heartily, but he does NOT represent the sane, sober and determined patriots hard at the task of seeking the truth about making our government accountable for its awful behavior of late.

If one notices, there are many, many different and HIGHLY RESPECTABLE groups raising similar concerns about this ROGUE GOVERNMENT. And yes, they each have extremists such as Jerit that they have to deal with also. Fortunately, these groups are of "long tooth" in such battles, and they have better capabilities to calm down the extremists because they know how problematic they can become in getting to the problems.

Such is the way it goes in some parts of what a free democracy should, and needs to be.

Love, Peace and Progress...

Robin Hordon

Posted by Robin Hordon | March 3, 2007 8:12 PM

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