Comments on Re: Clinton and Obama

Wow.

I don't know if I'm allowed to ignore him anymore.

so if he doesn't believe it's a sin, why does he go on and on about his religious and cultural background?

"Slimy"? not so much. Seems pretty forthright and honest to me. I expect alot of people struggle with this issue. We're naive if we expect gay marriage to go down like a nice smooth tonic.

Maybe because he's being honest, that he's conflicted about it. Some of the politicians responding to this question are simply pandering, but some may be truly conflicted. But of course, who the hell knows.

Re: slimy. I mean, I think he has a slimy persona in general, not that his answer was slimy. I think his answer is very nice.

Edwards seems very articulate and clean.

A "slimy persona". Is that because he's a lawyer with good hair? If so, then I hope you stay home on election day, because that's a real lame criterion for not backing a candidate.

If you have other reasons, then I'd like to hear them.

Annie, you're gonna have to come up with a better reason to hate him than that. Whether you like it or not, those answers were a head and shoulders above what any other candidate has said about us.

Edwards is leading the way on bravery and principled discussion of gay rights among the current crop of candidates. He's well on the way to getting my vote, and Hillary and Obama are well on their way to losing it.

It seems that emphasizing his "struggle" with the issue also allows him to speak to the sympathies of the vast numbers of voters who are uneasy about gay marriage and gay equality in general, for religious or other reasons. Any successful Democrat will have to address the concerns of this demographic without losing the gays (although it seems likely that the gay vote represents a smaller slice of the electoral pie.) So he is employing the same strategy Kerry used for abortion: Yes I have problems with it based on my religious beliefs, but it is unfair for elected officials to impose those beliefs on the American People.

If you want to see what a candidate who wholeheartedly endorses liberal causes such as gay marriage (and single-payer healthcare and carbon emissions et al) look at Kucinich or the Green Party. In other words, candidates who don't win. Appearing to take multiple sides on a divisive issue is a trait shared by politicians who win elections.

#2:

By talking about the cultural values of Southern Baptism, I think he is saying that he believes that the opposition to gay marriage within that culture is not ultimately rooted in religion. Intellectually, if we take his statements at face value, he doesn't think being gay is a sin. Yet he's acknowledging that within the culture he grew up in, being gay was not and still is not considered acceptable. But by backing policies based on common civil rights rather than one culture's values or another, he's saying that he would govern as president of everyone, regardless of their cultural background. That's good.

The end result of that logic is support for gay marriage, and Edwards seems to know it, but it's a struggle for him to get there. Acknowledging that might be politically astute, but it's also honest. I don't need my president to share my cultural values and practices. I just want him to respect cultural differences and treat them equally with respect to the law. If Edwards is truly being honest here, his presidency would be a huge step in the right direction.

DOUG.: Election day? You better mean caucus day, my friend, or your opinion won't count for beans. A couple thousand dollars would go a long way as well.

Adamblast: I'm against his populist nonsense plans for troop withdrawal, I dislike his old, extremely vague stump speech about "Two Americas" (though, admittedly, he does seem more inclined toward specific policy proposals this go around), I don't like the fact that he voted for the war, and I don't know if his trial-lawyer history will fly in the general election.

"Don't ask, don't tell" obviously has to go, but other than that, I don't think much progress will be made on gay issues on the federal level in the next eight years. I'm much more concerned about global warming and foreign policy in the Middle East. Go Gore!

I know! Why not vote for a Red Repug instead! Then you can be happy about how horrified you are every day of the week!

His responses seem downright strange and calculated when you remember the fact that he was a very successful trial lawyer prior to politics. A lawyer never asks or answers a question that they don't already know the answer to -- meaning that this whole flummoxed spiel seems to be an act. So, I guess he is trying to appeal to people who are struggling with the issue.

BTW, my father forced me to go to a Southern Baptist church and all I can say is that those crazy liars must be churning our homosexual atheists by the truckload.

Between Hilary's and Barack's comments, and now reading this from Edwards, it is really sobering to see how difficult it is for some liberals (defined broadly, I admit) to accept homosexuality--"accept" as oppose to merely "tolerate".

At first I thought it was just pandering in that "we can make evangelicals love us if we want to" kind of way. But now I'm starting to wonder ...

That's the best you got, annie, a caucus is not an election? Just admit it, you don't like his hair. Lame.

Cool. A rich white heterosexual male southern baptist who admits his religion determines his policy stances. Remember the last time we elected a guy like that?

Thanks for the post, Annie. Too bad you ruined it with your stupid "slimy" comments.

It's true, never underestmate the power of social conditioning, never underestimate the power of belief. More people from different sides of debates such as this need to seek undrestanding of each other in the way that you just have.

Still, recognizing the root of someone's ideology does not negate the destruction that ideology can impart, and it does not change the fact that John Edwards still tactfully placated both parties of the debate with his explanation in order to receive a vote. Edwards verbalized a grey-space place that many Americans are comfortable with, he articulated an ideological condition in this country and passed it off as humble heroism. Our society has moved forward enough in the realm of queer-rights that it is no longer ok to call gay a choice, but where calling gay "life-as-usual" (marriage, adoption, equal status, etc.) is still largely taboo. He simply spoke in tune with that space, and it came across as the right thing to say, but there was nothing revolutionary in his profession.

Edwards comes from a standpoint where gay-is-ok as long as his hegemonic power is not relinquished, as long as at the end of the day the rights are still his, his wife's, where his half sect of humanity still keeps hard thumb on the actions of others. I call B.S. on the "this is how I was raised, I'm southern Baptist" excuse. If you want to cite "how you were raised," if Edwards wants to be truly humble he should say this, "WHere I come from power was internalized and it takes a lifetime of work to face this. Allowing gay people to marry would shift the dynamic of who I was told I was fundementally: a white man with all the worlds rights at my feet. I am afraid of what the world will look like when I give that up."

That would be the most honest thing I could hear.

@16: "Cool. A rich white heterosexual male southern baptist who admits his religion determines his policy stances. Remember the last time we elected a guy like that?"

where does he admit any such thing? if anything, i read that he would create policy significantly different from what his religion taught him, and it therefore creates a discomfort for him. he's admitting to the "struggle" that any decent american xtain experiences, as opposed to the smug certitude that typifies the fundie repugnican pukes.

@19: Edwards is presently a United Methodist.

Annie, you may not like his hair, but he may be the most electable democratic candidate we've got.

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