News A Few More Notes on This Afternoon’s Viaduct Press Conference
posted by on March 14 at 16:00 PM
1.) Mayor Nickels began his remarks by thanking Seattle City Council Members (and tunnel supporters) Jan Drago, Sally Clark, and Jean Godden for being at the press conference. He left out David Della (an elevated supporter) until someone called out and reminded Nickels that Della was there. Awkward, weird moment.
2.) Mayor Nickels strayed from Gov. Gregoire’s, KC Exec Sims’s, and (I guess) Mayor Nickels’s coordinated interpretation of the voters’s message.
Gregoire: “I don’t know which options are on or off the table. What I do know is what the voters said. It’s time for a collaborative process.”
Sims: “The voters told us they want consensus. They want us to work collaboratively.”
And in the “Which one of These Doesn’t Fit?” category—
Nickels: “The voters sent a clear message. Above or below, they don’t want us to build another freeway on the waterfront.”
Several reporters pointed out that Nickels interpretation immediately took two major options off the table—which is certainly going to cause consternation rather than collaboration.
Sims cautioned us reporters: “Everybody wants a conflict. I’m not interested in that. Voters said they want us to work collaboratively.”
One reporter pushed Sims (an outspoken proponent of the surface/transit option, which the AP’s Dave Ammons suggested was the clear winner) to take credit for an “I told you so.” Sims, however, demurred.
Oh, and another weird moment, Ammons, addressing a question to Sims, said he wanted to “hear from the svelte Ron Sims.”
Last thing: Nickels disputed the Seattle Times half-baked analysis that election results were irrelevant because lots of people were simply frustrated and turned off and didn’t participate.
Commenting on the high turn out, Nickels said the election “speaks volumes about how engaged and passionate the people of Seattle are about the future of the city.”
The (also svelte) hand behind the curtain is that of Cary Moon, who had the tenacity to keep pushing and pushing until clear light shone on the ridiculous highway options. I ran into one of the monorail grassroots folks on the bus on the way to Spitfire last night who said, "Thank God for her. If the PWC wasn't there, if she hadn't pushed this, we would have started on a tunnel, had to abandon it for a rebuild, and we'd be in a total mess." As I am no longer affiliated with PWC and don't live here I can say without looking like a jerk that the credit for the opportunity Seattle is now presented with does not belong to any elected official, it belongs to Cary Moon.
I didn't vote for 'collaboration' - I voted for no tunnel and no elevated. That's what I was told to vote for, that's what was on the ballot, that's what I voted.
I completely agree #2. If they choose a tunnel or a rebuild then they are going completely against the voters, which would be totally aggravating for millions of reasons.
Lots of No/No people want surface/transit, retrofit, bridge, or some other option. Start with those.
Another not-so-secret option: bored tunnel (using Sound Transit's big boring machine, which looks like a set piece from MadMax or something) under Western Avenue. One problem? The train tunnel that goes under downtown. Plus, no off-ramps. Oh, and it's a tunnel, which means more cars. But I know folks will start pushing for that.
I would like a surface option with some sort of elevated pedestrian walkways so traffic could flow smoothly but people could easily cross over from downtown to the waterfront. I wish I was an artist because it looks pretty and efficient in my head.
Ron has lost a ton of weight, actually. He looks much younger so I'm not surprised at the "svelte" comment. I ran into him the other day and hardly recognized him at first.
carrie is not svelte. she is very fine, though.
friggin stop with the elliot bay suspension bridge!
ultimately, congestion is a permanent state with gas under $3/gallon. seattle wants whatever's cheapest - so carrie moon wins - except we should connect to the battery street tunnel through the existing corridor.
whoever permitted the condos on alaskan way fucked up. big time.
The problem with the vote is that the way it was structured, anyone can come away thinking pretty much whatever they want. You've got the "75% want a road" viewpoint, and you've got the "clearly surface was the winner", and probably a hundred other points of view besides.
None of these has any validity at all.
The so-called surface option got zero votes last night, that's for sure. It wasn't on the ballot. It's doubtful that if it had been it would have fared any better than the tunnel, despite what the crazies say. I think the real winning point of view in the city would probably be "screw the laws of physics, I want everything to stay the same forever".
However, something has to happen, and the problem with this vote is that it has created the opening through which the poison will enter, because it was so stupidly designed. And we are still stuck with a totally dysfunctional Council and Mayor, who appear to be motivated solely by what will piss off the other side most. At some point, we're going to have to go back to another vote of some kind, to find out what we DO want, and that's the Monorail Trail: we end up with nothing.
Sigh. I guess that's for the best. Shore the fucker up and carry on. We'll still be arguing about it in thirty years, whether it falls down or not.
Oh what the fuck? We vote against building a new viaduct so they tell us they're going to spend a billion dollars fixing the old one?
You know, if you talk about spending a billion dollars on mass transit all the political hacks bitch about the transit "subsidy". Spend that same billion dollars on freeway repairs, that's just "maintaining our infrastructure."
What a load of crap. Quick, someone create a multi-trillion dollar consumer market for elevated trains. Then maybe the government will spend some our tax dollars building infrastructure for those cars to run on.
Well, I'm glad to know now that Fnarf @7 has fulfilled my prophesy as of Monday:
Fnarf if the rebuild loses badly in tomorrow's election...: "How valuable is a non-binding, confusing, gerrymandered advisory measure regarding a decision that is the state's, not the city's? People, it's a state highway, not a city highway. Hello!"
Of course, my prophesy as of Monday was assuming that "No on 2" would win decisively. If "Yes on 2" had won or even come close, all the rebuild supporters would be singing a different tune. Oh, now I see the margin as of this afternoon is 12.5 percentage points.
a little math: new KC Elections numbers show that 24546 more ballots were counted today that registered votes on M2. Of those, 14527 were NOs - a 59.18% NO rate on the late deciders and late balloters.
If there really are 60000 more ballots coming in, and that rate holds for late casters, then we're going to see M2 defeated by 57%+ - which is a landslide in American politics. The elevated should be completly off the table.
EL GANADOR Wrote:
"The elevated should be completly off the table."
Elevated What, Ganador? I hope you are refering to what was offered in the
King County Voter's Guide (Measure 2),
because that was all that was voted on.
It doesn't mean that different elevated proposals can't be introduced.
Don't think for an instance that an elevated structure of some sort is
off the table. Be it a retro-fit, bridge or some other elevated proposal, it will get it's day in the sun.
Remember, this little party is going
to continue at least until the next bienium. Oh Joy!
---Jensen
No, the tunnel should be completely off the table. Drive a stake in it, it's dead.
But people DO want a LOT MORE TRANSIT - no matter what else happens.
I know that you guys enjoy picking on the mayor, but it sounds like he's the only one who got the message from yesterday's ballot. Which, in all likelihood, will probably bring some gridlock.
Well Josh King TV is running a poll that asks if people prefer a surface/transit option.
I suggest that you answer any ringing phone if you want the result you favor. :D
I voted no-no and I'm not surporting the tear it down approach - transit first - repair for now.
JOSH Wrote:
"Which, in all likelihood, will probably bring some gridlock."
Yes, you are correct Josh. Didn't The Stranger give the mayor the monicker,
"Gridlock Greg" and print t-shirts too
in celebration?
--- Jensen
@1 - yes, Cary Moon is hot!
As to gridlock, I can guarantee it's going to get a lot worse for a lot longer than you think, no matter what we do.
when oil peaks (if it hasn't already) will we find companies like exxon and shell willing to fix the century of damage by replacing the very efficient public transportation systems they were responsible for removing? or at least complicit with?
I dunno what your beef is, Cressona, but your interpretation of my post bears no resemblance at all to what I wrote.
Anyone these days looks svelte next to Nickels, including sumo.
The mayor is finally right on something important. Show him some love, I know you all can do it.
@6:
whoever permitted the condos on alaskan way fucked up. big time.
Heh heh heh heh.
You don't get it, do you?
What's wrong with condos on Alaskan Way? And what's wrong with condos in general? I can't understand why everyone hates them so much?
Single family homes are usually much more expensive (even more expensive than most downtown condos) so why aren't people talking about those richie-rich homeowners in Wallingford or Magnolia???? That's where the real money is.
We should still build 100-story inexpensive residential towers - like Vancouver BC does - with nearby parks (more). That works.
Deal with the growth. It won't go away. But stop fantasizing we will be a city of small houses. Those days are gone.
la - 22. It's cooler to rent, man.
@22:
I'm laughing at Max over his bemusement on the Alaskan Way condos. It's not that they're condos, it's that they're in the way of what he's proposing.
And more condos like them is what we'll get, not the open park that surface + transit proponents envision.
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