The original EIS studied a surface option without any transit, clocked in at 2.5-2.8 billion, versus 3.2-3.5 for a rebuild.
Here's a reasonable transit component for less than $700 million:
1: West Seattle Express Streetcar
Four miles from Link @ Spokane St to Morgan Junction. $100 - $200 million
2: Canal Line Streetcar
Five miles of track connecting the Allenville Trolley to Ballard & Fremont. ~$125-250 million.
Shore up the existing POS while you build the transit, build as much of the six lane surface boulevard underneath as possible, THEN tear it down. Why is that such a radical idea?
I'm interested to see how the different viaduct replacement options would fare with ranked voting, so I threw up a poll where you rank your choices:
At the end of the month, I'll tally up the votes and use the Condorcet method to see what option is the most popular. The poll includes all the major options I've heard proposed.
Erica et al. the project includes the seawall, and all the other fixes - busway off 519, trolley, etc.
Please, the "most cited number" and if the WSDOT said the improvements necessary would cost whatever you'd trash it - the PWC refuses to be specific about S&T because they are not transit planners - if you go to their web page and read all of their suggestions one could easily see the total costs being what Haugen claims - changing the express lanes to two way traffic, letting trucks use HOV lanes,setting up tolling on I-5, rebuilding AWB and new connections to it, freight surface corridors, transit to take 25% of current viaduct users (unending operating subsidies in addition to capital costs), Denny Way becoming a collector feeder (it carries 35K a day now), opening up 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th for more cars etc. etc. etc.
The funding from team Nickels' LID was highly dubious for the six lane tunnel and is a total non-starter for S&T. And the utility rate increases would not be necessary with the rebuild (which I oppose) because the project (like light rail and the monorail)
would pay to move the utilities - tax or rate increase either way we pay extra - and the Feds gave money for a highway not S&T.
The state doesn't think that a S&T serves the needs of the state - business or citizens so they don't want to pay for this.
Look at the PWC plan - figure out how long it will take to get ready and come over to reality that just wanting it really bad isn't enough.
Fighting the state hasn't been very successful to date - give them something - Repair and Prepare and in the meantime some cash is freed up for other projects - and that's the something you give them.
BTW they also suggest that people can just move - which could solve your holiday transit problem.
If it makes the state go away, repairing the current AWV is an even better idea. But we've got to get serious about transit. #1's street car proposal is one way to do it--though it doesn't create a transit through route--but it would be better to create integrated light rail, which would have the capacity to move far more people in the long run for only a modest price increase.
Street cars will require city money, and light rail will require regional Sound Transit money. The state's not going to pay for anything except highways. We'll have to do what needs to be done ourselves, at least until such time as WSDOT becomes a transportation agency and not a highways-only agency.
Too bad City Hall didn't get on the ball earlier and pitch the Repair to the state and now RTID money could be going to Seattle for in city transit - we could buy light rail ourselves through ST or build something else - express streetcar is a bit of an oxymoron.
I still don't understand how the foundation of this structure can be repaired. Every engineering report I've read has talked about incredibly risky and experimental techniques. It makes the tunnel look positively sane in comparison.
What's the point of spending at least a billion or two dollars to just kick the can down the road a little bit? The AWV isn't exactly the leaning tower of Pisa...
An express streetcar is hardly an oxymoron.
A West Seattle line could run on the Link line from Westlake to Spokane Street, which has plenty of room for median tracks.
With few stops & dedicated ROW its an express trip to Delridge, then it becomes a neighborhood line again up Avalon & Fauntleroy.
The operations money is there for Metro, with the BRT funding. I'm fine with a butt-ugly rebuild if RTID will go halvsies with Nickels on laying track and buying trains.
PS: Google "Lake Oswego Streetcar" to see where Portland is taking the local-express-local concept.
WSDOT says $2.3 to fix it to 2500 year standards - including the seawall etc, etc. - that's why S&T will cost at least a couple billion - go to WSDOT read the reports - BTW Victor Gray thinks that is too high -
What seismic standards were used?
T.Y. Lin International identified the improvements needed to the Viaduct Preservation Group’s retrofit proposal to meet the standard for an even more severe earthquake. This earthquake is expected to have a one in 50 chance of occurring in the next 50 years. The applicable standard stipulates that a structure like the viaduct would not collapse in this type of earthquake even though it might suffer serious damage that would require major repair or even full replacement. This is the same standard used for a replacement alternative.
What would it cost to retrofit the structure?
The cost of retrofitting a structure to this standard is $2.3 billion.
I think you may be mistaken - I'm pretty sure the standard used in the most recent WSDOT review of retrofitting was for a considerably less likely event - 500 years or beyond.
Mr X a 1 in 50 over 50 years is the 2500 year standard. From a WSDOT report:
What did WSDOT learn from the November 2006 T.Y. Lin International report? In August, T. Y. Lin International found that the proposals to retrofit the viaduct make some improvements, but didn’t go far enough to ensure the public is safe when an earthquake hits. A retrofitted viaduct would be damaged beyond repair and may in fact collapse in the event of a strong enough earthquake – one experts predict has a one in ten chance of happening in the next 50 years. In November, T.Y. Lin International identified the improvement needed for the Viaduct Preservation Group’s retrofit proposal to meet the standard for an even more severe earthquake. This earthquake is expected to have a one in 50 chance of occurring in the next 50 years. The applicable standard stipulates that a structure like the viaduct would not collapse in this type of earthquake even though it might suffer serious damage that would require major repair or even full replacement. Additional improvements needed to the Viaduct Preservation Group’s retrofit proposal, in order to meet an accepted standard of seismic risk are: • The footings of the viaduct require retrofit. • The lower floor beam / column joints need to be strengthened. • The joints between the columns and upper floor beams need to be replaced. The elevated structure and tunnel alternatives are also being designed to withstand this same standard – an earthquake that has a one in 50 chance of occurring in the next 50 years. What did WSDOT learn from the cost estimate of the updated retrofit? The cost of retrofitting a structure to this standard is $2.3 billion. This full retrofit is more than 80 percent of the cost of replacing the viaduct with a new elevated structure.
Best for you :)
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