Comments on Can He Get a Witness?

Go Jake!

Right on. Probably would have been better to tone down the inflammatory rhetoric and mortar in some more specifics, but the gist is 100% correct.

Any truth to the rumor that the bill is dead?

I hate it. NO! I LOVE IT!

Testify! *claps hands*

Right on Jake of 8bitjoystick.com!

And who dictates urban sprawl for the masses. The big city of Seattle and the whole enterprise of jobs and sprawl you have had out there for years. O.k. lower the cost of living in the City to match that of the rural community. Just pointing out its to late. The impact is more kids, more sprawl and the world of the computer
makes it so we don''t have to all live downtown to work at your businesses. Not everyone wants to live and work downtown with your entertainment values, your arthouse taverns and sit their discussing the merits of Picasso and Warhol over a glass of dark amber beer. Some still like to work out here and enjoy coors lite while watching the Races from other places. Oh wait we wouldn't have to watch it on T.v. we could have it right here? But no, you the hero are going to save us from ourselves, and chose what kind of restaurant or business goes where.
Not everyone wants to live and work at mom and pops 50 yearold restaurant anymore. Kids are learning and thery want to build their own sense of accomplishment. And some of these young enthusiasts dream big and work for businesses like NASCAR. They are all not old fuddy duddys, like your city council. A lot of kids have learned already that shutting them out from oppotunity is hypocritical of doubters like you. Spouting out Corporate greed sounds like a paranoid propaganda to me. Hell will freeze ove by the time kids are going to stop learning and dreaming so they could fit your definition of a society.
I agree with your stance somewhat, but arguing against business oppurtunity, and crying about your dream world, is not going to take away from what already is. Anything place next to a highway is going to get developed, like man has done for ages next to water. Thats my point. The fact is developement has already proceeded from Bremerton to Silverdale and beyond. Not everyone has the time to go to Seattle from Sequim to partake in the wonderful jobs and entertainment you have over there. Some have made it so they can have it in there own towns. So we live and work out here in Gig Harbor, Bremerton, and Poulsbo so we entertain ourselves, and in America sometimes that entertainment should have a right to come to our door and be given a chance. What have we sat in school and leartned over all these years. To dream big and expand our worth and value. Who made you chief of where a mall is supposed to be. Where were you when they ressurected the Seahawks stadium with taxpayers from Ocean Shores money? They didn't ask for trees to be cut down for your city, but it happened anyway.
And I don't see anyone coming over to Bremerton to have a good time. And I didn't ask for an airport to be built out here anyway. I was born with it and have to live with it. I'm sure those trees were beutiful once, but noooo Bremerton had to have a place for all those pilots who want to fly there own planes. Would a kid who wants to study architecture to make you parents proud, be given the opportunity to build a race track if he were from Washington State and had the money and support? Or are we too dictate what our kids learn because none of them will be having a chance to act on there dreams and what they have learned. Its only for the big citys I guess to make that decision.

The other 16% has spoken:

"...your entertainment values, your arthouse taverns and sit their discussing the merits of Picasso and Warhol over a glass of dark amber beer...."

So Jacob, and you too JME. Are we going to discuss the merits of the Hydro Plane races around Lake washington, and all the thousands of gallons of fuel and toxicity being poored into the puget sound from said races. That you di nothing to prevent that. Someones getting rich from it, and no amount of pity for your dreams of less sprawl, will ever change that. The 70% that have spoken , have had deaf ears before. Save us, but don't BS us with that hypocrasy.

how is that "hypocrasy"?
maybe they have tried to stand up against it.

oh, and architects don't design race tracks.

Well “Farnf” I can’t talk about details and name names since I don’t want to give the other side to much info about what we know but I know for a fact that it is going to die in the house.

One thing that I learned is that Frank Chopp is HARDCORE.

Well “Farnf” I can’t talk about details and name names since I don’t want to give the other side to much info about what we know but I know for a fact that it is going to die in the house.

One thing that I learned is that Frank Chopp is HARDCORE.

Besides the obvious evils of corporate subsidies of this type which I applaud Jacob for speaking on, NASCAR blows.

NASCAR events have barely even taken hold outside the South East (there's 2 tracks in California that host the brand's races, but seem to trail in popularity still behind the motorcyle, vintage, and Le Mans events), so I really don't see NASCAR being some huge success in xenophobic (I mean that in a good way, er...) Washington state anyhow.

San Jose has actually done a great job of bringing Formula 1 (well, Champ Car, actually) to it's city streets during the summer, which is where racing should take place anyhow (see: reason #23 NASCAR blows). They're making it they're own, just like NASCAR was in the deep south, just as Puget Sound already has hydroplane racing... which I loved as a kid, for the record.

Word in Olympia today:
NASCAR bill is dead.

I just wanted to discuss the merits of your ability to generalize. You didn't like my stab at it?

Well Dougsf I have no problem with NASCAR fans, I am just not one of them and I don't want it in my town on my dime that and the ISC has done some really ruthless things in pushing their track.

The AP picked up my testimony in the Senate hearing and I have quotes in about 400 newspapers today because of it. I didn't talk at the House hearing since I was way too tired and there were lots of others that had things to say against the bill. I printed out copies of my letter and hand delivered it to the offices of every single legislator on Tuesday.

JME you only get 3 minutes to give testimony. You can't get into too much detail on such a big issue in just three minutes.

Yes they do. Structure in any form is a form of architecture, may not be a building but design fits into it.
The stadium, the rafters shape and structure, are acrchitecture.
And it is hypocrasy.
Take what Western Washington Sports suggest about Traffic Management.
'Traffic impacts will only occur roughly three weekends per year and will be no different than a husky football weekend and less than SEAFAIR.
In addition to working closely with local officials, Great Western Sports has partnered with the countrys leading traffic managers, experienced in handling transportation for huge major events such as the 1994 World Cup, Superbowl XL, and the Salt Lake City and Atlanta Olypic games.'
Whats the big fear. What ways have that improved the world? you ask. Well it gave plenty of kids a chance to work and figure out ways to make a business work for them and others interested. Why is developement important? maybe you would find that answer if you took business, economy, and stop giving kids boundaries in what they will come across in the future. We laid this egg of sprawl, and had to suck up to corporations like starbucks, Micee dees, and Walmart. Others have bigger dreams than that. And see more into racing than just the cars and pavement. Its called there is no more room for architectural opportunities in the world because naysayers like you prevent kids from making it happen. You want us all to live in 12oo A.D. and be humble servants to the established in the Castle walls.
Man has escaped that prison before, and nothing will change that. Tell you what, get rid of Banger Naval Station and Seattles shipyards and we will have a fair and accurate viewpoint on how to stop us landluvers from putting pavement and "sprawl" all over the country side. See you at SEAFAIR this summer. WooHOOO. What the hells the point in going to school to create a market for? What the hell is a kid to do if everything time he dreams to do something he's outgunned by the antidevolopement screwballs. I wasn't born up here to just make apples for you man. Or milk that cow. Or build machines of war.

Agreed, no prob with it's fans either, I just have a hard time seeing it take hold up there. Although I'm not a fan myself, if NASCAR wanted to hold events at SIR, I wouldn't see an issue with that. To paraphase my ramble:

Government subsidies for stadiums = bad. ESPECIALLY in this case.

NASCAR sucks anyway (says me).

Good work on this, btw.

Oh, the "agreed" was for Jacob #14, not the man with the tin foil hat directly above my last post.

Great rant by Jake, and even though it was a bit inflammatory I'm glad he was able to deliver it directly to legislators.

Hopefully, this bill stays dead. The lack of a huge local fan base should help, unlike with the big team sports.

Also if you have an issue with the line
"The ISC and their allies have engaged in questionable lobbying activity with our elected officials. They have used campaign contributions, expensive tickets to races”
You should ask Norm Dicks's office about the 8,000 the ISC family gave to his 2006 campaign and ask if it had any influence in his support for their bill. Also you should ask Lt Governor Owen about the cash value of the trip to Daytona 500 in 2004 that he accepted on the ISC’s dime and invitation. I talked to other legislatures from Kitsap that turned down similar offers in 2005 and they said the ISC offered to paid for the entire trip. Ask him about how that is any different from Tom DeLays’s golf trips.

"Progressive", your posts would benefit from some paragraphs.

If the hydroplane people asked the state to build them a $370 million facility, I think you'd hear some outrage there too.

NASCAR exists only to waste gas and promote lousy sponsors. Maybe if it got some controversial entries like "Team Tampax," it would be less pathetic.

Does Washington State have a demolition derby track? Now, THAT's entertainment!

Slip in Bremerton we have demolition derby races and monster truck races. We don't have NASCAR but Kitsap is not without it's charm.

@12 - thank god.

And I'm not a man. I am a boy in your world that I did not ask for. My dream is not to run around saving society from developement. Mine is to grab myself by the cojones and serve your beast, your progress. Your corporate sprawl. I will draw, and make ads of Joe Camel if i have to. I learned therefore I am and can do that. What can you do but take the candy from the baby. Then stop screwing and having kids if you don't want sprawl. Keep us from education, who need to learn math, since everyone doesn't want to build structure anymore. Only if it military do you care. Like
I said I didn't ask for Banger Naval Station and the density that brought to Bremerton. I would have rather had a Racetrack instead of the War machine, you see what I'm saying? You don't like Nascar. I don't like big Battle ships blocking my view of the bay, or guys that don't know how to fly planes buzzing over my head everyday from their self important airport. So its really a matter of preference where I want to spend my taxes on, same as you. But you might as well shut down the system cause something stinks, when you stop progression of the youth and their dreams and needs. Old fuddy duddy.
You got to screw and build a war machine dependent economy.
We youth want too screw and develop
places to race cars and entertain..
You scream no more war, then o.k. We want to create entertainment to fill the void.
You say we are not here to entertain you. Fine. But we will see which you prefer in the comming years, when we have all screwed like bunny rabbits, and realize that sprawl is benificial to society. And its not going to be the end of the world for washington state apple growers because we built a raceway out here. Seems all you folks want us to do is grow up and be cops, or soldiers, or environmentalists, or scientists that only build war machines instead of something to benefit man. Not every kid fits your perfect world of societal needs. There are some who will be working for those corporate monstrosities. Because what else is there after all said and done. Beats a future of kissing ass for you old farts and mom and pop restaurants will and are going to go out of style.
You had us so now you have to deal with us. And we like fast cars, screwing our brains out, and what other states other than our own have, we want to have that to. Washington is not seperate from the country. We are not in of itself some place that has to stay green because thats what grandma and grandpa want. They didn't stop us from swallowing the wars they want us to fight. They gave us opportunity to create our dreams though.

Exactly, Fnarf.

And let's also include the rather obvious facts that: Hydro racing has been around these parts for 50 some-odd years, only impacts one weekend out of 52, has widespread public support, isn't government subsidized, doesn't require a half billion-dollar edifice in which to take place, and can be viewed at a location with HUGE amounts of freeway and public transit access.

Oh, and gallon-for-gallon, a dozen or so jet-powered hydro's running intermittently over the course of two days still probably has a lot less negative environmental impact than 30+ high-performance stock cars running around in circles for three or more hours at a stretch, three times or so a year.

AND, the spectators aren't crammed right up to edge of the course where the inevitable exploding stock cars can careen into them at 200 mph.

AND, NASCAR has to be right up there with golf, bowling, and curling as one of the most boring excuses for a spectator sport yet invented.

And, Finally an overwhelming majority of people who presumably LIVE AND WORK on the penninsula have said they don't want NASCAR moving in next door, so Progressive?'s bizarely convoluted argument that access to entertainment equals Constitutionally-protected civil liberties not withstanding, he's clearly in a very small, albeit very vocal minority.

Growing up I lived 15 minutes from a NASCAR track, the Texas Motor Speedway. What a fucking mess.

On race days the whole town practically had to shut down because they built the track in an area that was served by only one two-lanes-each-way highway that also took us to school, work, etc. It got to the point where we would have to get up super early to get to school on time, sometimes it would take 45 minutes to drive the 4 miles down the highway. That is, if they didn't cancel school altogether because we just couldn't get there. All these hicks would do would be to sweep in with their RVs, pollute the open sky, and then leave, like vultures, with a wake of trash behind them.

Good on-ya Jake.

Dude,

Unless you were around 60 or 70 years ago, before the Navy moved in, you got nothing to complain about. Don't like big battleships? Move. They were there long before you came on the scene, and no doubt they'll be there long after your name has been spoken for the last time.

And no, WE didn't "have" you, so don't try the "it's not my fault I was born" song-and-dance as an excuse, because in answer to your presumably rhetorical question: no in fact, we DON'T have to "deal with you" and your adolescent, ego-driven, self-absorbed sense of entitlement. We have plenty of that ourselves, thank-you-very-much, and it's quite enough to deal with, without adding yours to our already overflowing plates.

So then deal with it when your kid wants to drive NASCAR races someday and maybe even build a racetrack. I'm sure the money he makes will go impressievly toward your campaigns
to never ever bring racing to Seattle. That'll be the day, but I wonder if you have the amount of money offered to designers like me, who make logos.
I did not go to school to learn graphic design to paint trees for your protest for nothing. I need something that paid and thats was from the Big Bad corporate wolves you guys are so scared about. Enetertainment is business these days, and that means the only way for it to go on is sprawl in this state or anywhere else. Maybe not here now, but soon someone like your kids will tear down that Viaduct and put in a surface level project. So what goes for Seattle, goes for the youth in the country little towns as well. Maybe we will build a highway over your graves, like you did our Native ancestors. Because we want to make some money and retire like you. not.

"progressive?" Dude are you Ok?

Dude, congratulations for your brilliant, unheretoforeknown discovery that "entertainment is business", Eureka! I'm amazed nobody ever realized that before you. Simply brilliant.

I believe most of us have been pretty clear on this issue, even if you're too enamored of the sound of that voice in your head clacking into your keyboard to hear anything else, so let me spell it out one more time, just to give you a chance: IF NASCAR wants to build a racetrack in Kitsap County, AND the voters there approve, AND they don't ask for corporate welfare to do it, then hey, it's a free country.

But seriously, is this what all your ranting boils down to? An incoherent plea for the rest of us to see to your personal economic well-being? I suppose you've got it in your head that, "If only NASCAR would come to MY neck-of-the-woods, I could make a FORTUNE designing graphics for customized t-shirts, license plate holders and souvenir foam fingers!"

Funny, I don't recall anything written in stone, or paper, or bytes for that matter stating that half a million or more residents on your side of the Sound were obligated to pay hundreds of millions of dollars just for the purpose of keeping your undoubtedly wildly successful graphic design company in-the-black.

I'm just talking symantics. Careers and business that seem to go no where, because of anti developement and burdens that are dreamed up those to afraid that what they have created is a monster. Its like the Frankenstein story. We , the doctor, have made this scociety, gluttons for entertainment and capita, and we suddenly are repulsed to even try anything. We might as well give a kid at school books about how to be an asshole when you grow up, and bring the other kids dreams down. I'm seeing this country get more wishy washy, and contradictory every damn day and its baffeling. So I'm o.k. Just to show you I agree with the sentiments about the how this sprawl should be policed, but maybe we are not giving ourselves half the chance to proceed in newlyfound structures and environments. We built it we can tear it down. Thats cool and all, if you always like to have little johnny come and run his bulldozer over your erectorset. I'm angling for job security, but not one that is dictated by the town in which I live. So yeah if I leave and go somewhere else to build my dream thats fine and dandy, but soon those dreamers do not leave and , thats a fact that your kids and those kids kids will eventually erect that racetrack over your graves if they have to to make that money. You see not only gangster rappers have ambition and ideals of what success is. not only Sea ports and their busy worker bees. Some cats want to spark life back into a town thats been growing fungus on its feet. And if you don't want us kids to think that way,
then can I skip school today, and smoke some pot in the forest with my friends.
We like the environment to.

@COMTE: Don't diss on the curling. Curling freakin' rules. Beer + Brooms = fun.

Hey Monique, from a participant's perspective, I can totally see the allure, but watching it is like watching laundry dry - on a clothes line. In the dark.

@10 - you got that right.

If you woke up or were born tomorrow and NASCAR was here , I'm sure you would live with it, even though uncomfortably, but you would adjust to it as we children had to adjust to your grandpas idea of a Seaport. Progress.Its a two way street, and the former generation is not thank god, going to always live a life the way you want it to be. They like football, they will build stadiums for it. And if they want to take down the Seahawks stadium and build a NASA rocket launching site, they will figure out how to do that to. Albeit thats crazy, but you or I do not dictate what a person whishes to have. That 16% could be your 70% tomorrow in favor of NASCAR. Unless you plan on living forever and telling the youth what they can build and can't build.
Kids have alot better ideas, than weapons of war and airplanes that shoot laserbeams at the enemy in mass. Who dictated we want superpowerd military jets, and the billions in tax money we got to give to support that. I was find with the M-1 tank. I do not need Boeing to build a Mech Warrior monstrosity that can outmanuever said tank. Good so little johnny wants soldiers. Your o.k. with that. Yet, Some kids still like to draw logos for racecars and they want to actively begin or have a share in companies and business in there own backyards called something else other than Walmart or microsoft.

Actually Monique one of the highlights of the day is when I was talking to two UW students in the legislative cafeteria and I expressed how I think that Rat City Rollergirls is the perfect example of how a sports franchise should be run and the lades face just lit up because she is in Rat City Rollergirls so we talked about how awesome rollerderby is in Seattle and how much the NASCAR proposal sucks. I can’t explain it. Rollerderby is the Anti-NASCAR.

Yay everybody lets go to Seattle and see the Rat City Roller girls. I'm startin up my car in Ocean Shores just for that occasion. Oh and when, actually thats if, you guys come out here to visit and play this summer, please clean your garbage off our beach.

My testimony is online as an MP3 now
Go to TVW dot Org and do a search for 6040

I would post a link but the blog comment script does not like URLs.

what if we wrote the NASCAR contract to include the Viaduct replacement cost?

No, no - the contract should insist that the viaduct BECOME the new NASCAR track. Bring that 12 minute commute from W Seattle to Wallingford down to 4!

Comte: "AND, the spectators aren't crammed right up to edge of the course where the inevitable exploding stock cars can careen into them at 200 mph."

This is actually the only good reason to vote FOR the track.

And Monique is right: Curling RULEZ. Amazing fun to play, gripping to watch if you have the bug. Like chess, only, uh, less chess-like. You can even curl on your GameBoy if you get the Winter Olympics game pack.

progressive,
engineers build roads. a racetrack is a road.
they also designed most of the stadia (the architects just drew pretty pictures and said, "please mr engineer, we can do this, right?")

what's your obsession with "architectural opportunities"
the NW is one of the more progressive cities, architecturally speaking.
Have you even been to the library down here? who the hell grows up wanting to design racetracks? it's the fratboys/hacks that barely make it through arch. school that do that shit.

So whats the point in learning to engineer then if you cannot build highway. And architects are not end all to what is design. I know that. My point is why learn about anything if you can't work in that interest. Every kid will have to be protested by the likes of naysayers about anything because of the fucking environment, or the anti-sprawl propaganda by the likes of joystick. Fuck school I quit. not. Every kid doesn't grow up wanting to be a frickin Library builder for your enjoyment. If designers , and architects, and whatnot want to build a city over your city and thats what the kids want to do. Then let them. Grow old and die old fuddy duddys so we don't have to worry about your tax burdens anymore. what the hell you care about our future anyway. You made a mess already, and can't even get a viaduct taken down, even though most of you all support that. You ask me kids are smarter than you already. and I can't wait till they seed the fate of Washington into one big Sprawl of progress. I'll be going to the library to learn about how the highways and builders and designers came together and created the future for us all. Or I can go learn how to make bombs. Screw that. I prefer to learn to build
a racetrack and how that is deployed and created rather than destroy.
Theres more to human needs than saving your grandpas trees. Make Seattle affordable, roomier, and offer more, and maybe thousands of us little pups and kittens will move out of the woods and deserts to live with you. Until then piss off, we want a Raceway, and if not now, next time. Until your Bremerton council isn't full of old ass crusty men who worry that someone with bigger bucks, bigger brains, are going to come along and give your kids what they couldn't give them. Not everyone in school is in it for the same thing. Not having Nascar in Bremerton doesn't change those facts. You sealed our fate with developement and education already. We kids see through the BS. And we are not all going to be cops, council members or cry baby taxpayers. We want more, and eventually we will get it. Even if we have to minus out your favorite tree Gramps. Or congest your traffic for awhile while we build. Pull over before you have a heart attack about your cities changeing before your eyes. eat a doughnut. Oh and Chief Seattle told me to give you all a big Middle Finger. That statue you made of him is Blowhard tomfoolery for whitemen to tell their kids how much they admire the peacefulness of the NorthWest and those nice native americans who we'll educate so much cause we love them. yeah right.

No pork for NASCAR and NASCAR go home!

No land for whitemans council and whitemans council go home! This tribe has spoken. Take your ships and go away.

dude, progressive?, You don't even live in Kitsap. Ocean Shores is in Gray's Harbor County. They wanted to put the track near Poulsbo...

NASCAR can pay for their own damn track if they want one in Washington. Not the taxpayers.

And they should put the damn thing in Spokane where the fans are more likely to be.

Sha, you don't have to go 10 miles in any direction to find NASCAR's target market.

Get off the hill once in awhile.