Slog - Comments on Savage Love Letter of the Day http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2 This is... um... something that came in the mail today. Now that Santorum has only one disgusting meaning instead of two, it's a good opportunity to take another devastating swipe at the dangers of homophobia. The sad fact is that those intrepid climbers on Mt. Hood could've survived had all three simply huddled together and kept warm in a snow cave. That would have been their only hope, and it's very unfortunate for them and for their families that their all-American values of homophobia probably hopelessly prevented them from ever even considering that option. But separated and clutching blocks of... Copyright 2008 Sat, 23 Dec 2006 14:34:31 -0800 Wed, 27 Dec 2006 12:48:53 -0800 http://www.movabletype.org/?v=3.34 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Comment by Boomer Dear Gawd. How you muster the courage to open your mail each day, I cannot imagine.

]]> Boomer http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578064 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578064 What the Sat, 23 Dec 2006 14:46:57 -0800 Comment by no
I hadn't heard anything like that. This guy sounds rude.

]]> no http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578069 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578069 What the Sat, 23 Dec 2006 15:07:57 -0800 Comment by jean I'm all for homosexual rights but here's an interesting story.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lancashire/6205223.stm

]]> jean http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578070 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578070 What the Sat, 23 Dec 2006 15:10:06 -0800 Comment by Brandon H Sounds like something posted by someone from The Evergreen State College. How arrogant of them to think they knew what was going through their heads as they were fighting to survive.

Lets just use some simple logic here. If you were dying of cold, your last concern would be being perceived as gay, if it meant continued living you would do it. Hell, even Jerry Falwell would probably take it up the ass and suck cock if it meant his survival (picturing that I just threw up in my mouth a little).

]]> Brandon H http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578072 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578072 What the Sat, 23 Dec 2006 15:14:32 -0800 Comment by Aexia Jean @ 3

I'm all for homophobic dipshits feeling marginalized. "Oh noes! The government no longer endorses our bigotry! To the lawyers!"

]]> Aexia http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578075 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578075 What the Sat, 23 Dec 2006 15:30:02 -0800 Comment by Sean These guys surely knew that cuddling would buy them extra time, but they apparently concluded not enough.

Were they correct? Well, a well constructed snow cave will maintain a temperature of 32 degrees inside. From what I read, it didn't sound like they were able to build a perfect snow cave, so theirs was probably more like 10-20 degrees. I don't know how long 3 guys spooning can last in those temperatures. Without food or the ability to move around, maybe 2-4 days?

But homophobia? Utterly ridiculous.

]]> Sean http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578105 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578105 What the Sat, 23 Dec 2006 16:27:35 -0800 Comment by torrentprime Dan, this may not be as visceral a letter as the guy who sent you the Internet pictures of people vacuuming out their colons, but it's almost as intelligent.

]]> torrentprime http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578107 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578107 What the Sat, 23 Dec 2006 16:36:55 -0800 Comment by Fnarf Your brain-dead correspondent is apparently unaware that non-gay and possibly homophobic outdoorsy-type folks have always stripped down and cuddled for warmth as a survival technique. It's the standard way to revive someone suffering from exposure in cold conditions (in a sleeping bag with a non-frozen person). Yes, it's the source of stupid discomfort and silliness, and yes, they do it anyways. Your letter writer is sadly more bigoted than they are.

The Mt. Hood hikers are unfortunately dead, regardless of who or what they cuddled up with.

]]> Fnarf http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578109 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578109 What the Sat, 23 Dec 2006 16:58:34 -0800 Comment by David Wright I'm a mountain-climber and I second FNARF's comment. (1) The letter-writter is a dumb-shit who has no idea what did or didn't go down on that mountain, but can't miss an opportunity to flaunt his oh-so-enlightend moral superiority. (2) Getting two people together in a bag is a damn good way to fight hypothermia. Getting your fingers and toes in a crotch is a damn good way to save them from frostbite. Both techniques are well-known and well-used by mountaineers.

]]> David Wright http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578120 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578120 What the Sat, 23 Dec 2006 17:40:07 -0800 Comment by Orv Last I heard one of them was injured and the other two left him to go find help. Huddling together isn't really an option, in that kind of situation. Has there been anything new discovered that says otherwise?

]]> Orv http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578127 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578127 What the Sat, 23 Dec 2006 18:43:18 -0800 Comment by Robin Yes. Kelly James -- the one who was left behind (and the only body found so far) -- was apparently not hurt badly enough to prevent descending. (That, according to some reports from an autopsy. The searchers who found his body thought he had a dislocated shoulder, but the autopsy results apparently suggested otherwise.)

So, there's too little information to draw any conclusion. Why did the climbers separate? Why did James or all of them dig two snow caves? Why did James say he was injured in the Dec. 10 call to his family?

There's no way to answer those questions, so there will probably never be answers. Any speculation like the letter writer's is unjustified.

]]> Robin http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578153 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578153 What the Sat, 23 Dec 2006 22:16:54 -0800 Comment by elswinger Brandon, your an asshole. I went to Evergreen, you retard and so I've heard a lot of stupid stuff there, but nothing like the dick who wrote that letter (which I think was you).

#1 Huddling together does indeed keep you warmer for longer.

#2 Even the most homophobic climber is not going to let themselves die before they would huddle with another naked man.

]]> elswinger http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578155 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578155 What the Sat, 23 Dec 2006 22:32:23 -0800 Comment by Pomme Fritz More tragic is their decision to ascend up the most dangerous face of Mt. Hood in December, with a raging winter storm being broadcast continuously for a few days before it actually hit, and then proceed to try and descend down the "easier" south face, which they had never seen before, while walking head-first into snow flying in 100 mph gusts of wind.

If these guys didn't want to be dead, they shouldn't have climbed that mountain. No amount of huddling naked could possibly keep you alive that long up there. I would have chosen to try and descend, too. Who the hell knows when a storm like that will end? Better just to get the hell off the mountain, not that they should have been up there in the first place, by the sound of it.

]]> Pomme Fritz http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578162 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578162 What the Sun, 24 Dec 2006 00:24:42 -0800 Comment by Lola Ah, Pomme Fritz, yet another fucking judgmental know-it-all. You join the ranks of the idiots who blamed that couple for driving into the mountains in Oregon, and my stupid co-worker who said Kate Fleming was dumb to go into her basement when it was raining.

Fuck you all. Oh, yeah, and Merry Christmas, fuckers.

]]> Lola http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578191 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578191 What the Sun, 24 Dec 2006 08:58:56 -0800 Comment by bma Hey, Pomme may be insensitive, but he's not wrong. If you have prior warning that the weather's going to be rough and you go anyway despite the warnings, no one else is really responsible but you.

It doesn't mean that they shouldn't get rescued, of course. However, you're an idiot if you're *not* being judgmental by calling them dumbasses for doing this in the first place.

]]> bma http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578197 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578197 What the Sun, 24 Dec 2006 09:23:05 -0800 Comment by Lola, sick of pompous blowhards. Ah, yes, we really do need more judgmental people in the world. Fuck you too, bma.

]]> Lola, sick of pompous blowhards. http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578202 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578202 What the Sun, 24 Dec 2006 10:02:33 -0800 Comment by Lanik It is tragic and of course there should have been a rescue attempt. I feel horrible for those guys, but it was also idiotic and selfish. Their families and people that cared about them are suffering and tax payers paid for the rescue operation because of their short-sightedness and arrogance. And of course, they are dead.

The reason some degree of judgment should be applied to this situation is that we don't want stuff like this to happen again. Of course it will, but hopefully less.

]]> Lanik http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578205 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578205 What the Sun, 24 Dec 2006 10:31:37 -0800 Comment by Brandon H elswinger,
I go to Evergreen too and you are yet another example how that entire campus is devoid of a sense of humor and lacks the ability to withstand any form of criticism. I agree with your two points yet you see fit to call me an asshole just because I imply that Evergreen students often have there heads so far up their own asses that they could write something like RAPH.

Brandon H

P.S Why would I write a letter like that and then turn around an write a criticism of myself?

]]> Brandon H http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578246 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578246 What the Sun, 24 Dec 2006 18:01:11 -0800 Comment by old crone Whoever thought FNARF would use the word "anyways"? And apparently Evergreen doesn't teach the difference between there/their, and your/you're. I don't know what this younger generation is coming to.

]]> old crone http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578267 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578267 What the Sun, 24 Dec 2006 21:18:08 -0800 Comment by Brandon H Actually they don't even require writing courses, which shows. But you don't need to be such a crone about it. This is just a bullshit forum post anyway, it's not like anyone has the time to go through the proper editing.

]]> Brandon H http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578276 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578276 What the Sun, 24 Dec 2006 22:55:50 -0800 Comment by sean LOLA: "Fuck you too, bma."

Chill out, sister. Anyone who spends time in the mountains should analyze tragedies like this so that if you ever get into trouble you don't die by repeating other's mistakes.

In this case, I think the only way they could have survived was to heed the storm warnings and cancel the trip. Once they were up there, they were screwed.

]]> sean http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578346 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578346 What the Mon, 25 Dec 2006 16:24:04 -0800 Comment by Hap Cabbage However right or wrong the original RALPH might be about homophobia, he is correct about the value of warm bodies huddling together to prevent hypothermia.

Heat loss is a function of surface area and volume. More surface area gives you more surface from which to lose heat. More volume gives you more heat to start out with. Three people huddled together reduce the surface area (per person) exposed to the elements, while approximately tripling the volume that is holding the heat. It's an excellent strategy to slow down the onset of hypothermia, whatever your other predilections about men huddling with other men.

]]> Hap Cabbage http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578864 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/12/savage_love_letter_o_2#c578864 What the Wed, 27 Dec 2006 12:48:53 -0800