Comments on Today's Most Controversial Post

I'm often guilty of this offense. What would you do here: http://www.entrepreneur.com/blog10-20-06a.html ??

Note to self: follow Dan around, cut him in line, use credit card for every purchase, get hit in head, sue, win, buy new sofa.

Tough noogies. I use my credit card at the coffee shops all the time. So, plblblblb!

I say you should tell your barrista to fix her credit-card reader, or to implement an 'express-o lane' (get it?)

And, have you heard this story?:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6246139

i pay with debit all the time. if you don't like it, scrounge up some pennies, buy a french press and shove it up your ass ;)

Or better yet, buy a pre-paid coffee card at Victrola, or even Starbucks if that's your type of coffee shop.

Yes Dan, it bothers me too. It's just that this is what people 'like' to do - open up their wallets, select which piece of plastic, exchange grins, wait, wait, more waiting, revel in the popularity of where they are (due to the long line), wait some more, then drink their coffee concoction. It's a highlight of the day.

pat yourself on the back dan! you probably ruined your barista's morning with your pissy attitude.
you've obviously never worked in retail. here's a thought: it's not the machines going down that make it hard to function in the fast paced environment of the coffee shop, it's the people that can't suck it up and need to complain to everyone around them, suggest a seperate line for themselves and don't tip because they're morning was "ruined" by the extra two minutes they had to stand in line.

Because of your post Dan, I just now went through pants pockets and my change bowl to scrounge up the $4 or so (baristas love quarters!) for an Americano and a muffin before heading out the door. I agree, it is annoying; but technology will help. Starbucks has this down fast, just a swipe and transaction completed.

Don't worry, soon we'll be paying via retinal scan, and it will be the motherfuckers paying with CASH that are holding us up.

Can we get this ban extended to movie theater concession stands as well?

I'm guessing Dan isn't nearly as frustrated as he sounds; and he's just being rhetorical here as a slight defense to ECB's controversial impulse post from yesterday.

But you know what? No sympathy, even *if* Dan is being serious, which I doubt. These are problems even most Americans want to have, much more billions of non-Americans.

Go to a coffee place that has a cash-only line. Or perhaps work with busy coffeehouses to establish a cash-only line separate from the general line, if there's a demand for it.

Seattle's historically "mellow" in the retail and, to some degree, customer community. But the influx of the "GET-UP-and-GO-NOW-or-I-PLOW-OVER-YOU-ASSHOLE!" types may eventually change Seattle retail.. hopefully for the better, but I don't know about that.

Debit/Credit cards are not nearly as slow as some jerk trying to fish out exact change from his pockets, the barista counting out the dimes, ass pennies, etc.
"Oh wait, I have exact change here somewhere..."

Plus what about the hipsters that dont have any room in their pants pockets for change?

Wonder who tips better -- cash or credit?

If buying a cup of tea that costs $1.65 and tossing a dollar in the tip jar ruins the barista's morning, then I'm guilty as charged.

I put myself through college waiting tables. I feel for the baristas—the credit card dopes annoy them too. It's why some coffee shops have a minimum purchase (say $5) for credit or debit cards. They don't really want to run credit cards any more than I want them to run credit cards.

Jebus. Is this the best you can do, a shitty Andy Rooney impersonation?

The worst are the fucking airheads who wait until they're at the front of the line to decide what they want, then wait until their order is ready to start digging in their hippie bags for money, or credit cards, or whatever.

Clearly the solution is to help support really bad California based coffee chains in Seattle so that the stigma of great coffee here is ruined forever, and everyone can be happy drinking sub-Dunkin' Donuts coffee every morning like NORMAL people.

People who wait in line at espresso joints deserve whatever bad things happen to them.

Most places set a $5 minimum bill for debit/credit card usage. I think a good place sets this as standard policy.

An old coffee hangout of mine in Vegas did not take cards at all. Either you had the cash for your drink or you GTFO.

I was a barista for many years and I have to agree with Dan. Using credit/debit is annoying and silly for just a cup of coffee. Really long lines of customers can be stressful for the barista and for the other customers if moving along slowly. It just puts everybody in a bad mood.

Thankfully some coffee shops (Victrola for one) have sensible minimum purchase amounts for using plastic. This is a good compromise, because if you really have no cash you can buy a prepaid coffee card with plastic but it still encourages the use of cash for most transactions.

"Most places set a $5 minimum bill for debit/credit card usage."

Which is, in fact, a violation of their merchant agreement with the card issuers.

Regardless, I find that at establishments with their shit together, it's faster to use a credit card than cash. And I get annual cash back, so what's not to like?

I am a Barista and Savage comes in to my place of employ. Sometimes he's morose, sometimes he's upbeat, sometimes he's clearly hungover. But he always throws in a dollar on his under-two-dollar order. And if he comes back up to get something else (cookie usually), it's another dollar tip. And never a credit card.

Baristas (at least where I work) heart customers like Savage.

as a current barista working at a $5-minimum-charge place, i have to say that its for our own reasons, not because its more of a "hassle" to deal with plastic.

visa, mastercard, etc recently raised the surcharges that they bill merchants for using thier cards as method of payment. on anything less than $5, your favorite local coffee shop is likely LOSING money in the charges they pay to accept your plastic for a tall americano and a muffin, at $3.95.

if you MUST pay with plastic, do as others have suggested, and buy a 3 or 9 drink prepaid card. not only will you make the minimum, but its much faster the rest of the time that you get your drinks. just remember that baristas don't share tips, and bring some change to toss in the jar when you're getting those next few lattes.

oh, and while we're on the subject:
there are three people you should ALWAYS tip-- your hairstylist, your tattoo artist, and your drug dealer (barista), because you definitely don't want your hair f-ed up, your tattoo ruined, or even worse, to be DECAFFED.

as a current barista working at a $5-minimum-charge place, i have to say that its for our own reasons, not because its more of a "hassle" to deal with plastic.

visa, mastercard, etc recently raised the surcharges that they bill merchants for using thier cards as method of payment. on anything less than $5, your favorite local coffee shop is likely LOSING money in the charges they pay to accept your plastic for a tall americano and a muffin, at $3.95.

if you MUST pay with plastic, do as others have suggested, and buy a 3 or 9 drink prepaid card. not only will you make the minimum, but its much faster the rest of the time that you get your drinks. just remember that baristas don't share tips, and bring some change to toss in the jar when you're getting those next few lattes.

oh, and while we're on the subject:
there are three people you should ALWAYS tip-- your hairstylist, your tattoo artist, and your drug dealer (barista), because you definitely don't want your hair f-ed up, your tattoo ruined, or even worse, to be DECAFFED.

You cash-only-for-small-purchases woebegoners are in for some frustrating espresso queues ahead as B of A's Debit Card "Keep the Change" program revs up in WA. Those minimum purchase limits set by the merchant before whipping out plastic are fine, but in their absence: Buck up.

There have been a few occasions when I've had no cash and ended up using my debit card at a coffee shop - and I always feel like a moron when I do it. Usually this happens when I'm so tired that I don't know I've got no cash until I go to pay - if I know I have no cash I either stop at an ATM or I don't get the coffee. My usual coffee hangout doesn't even take plastic and I applaud them.

Re: the question of tipping - if I pay cash I always leave change if I'm just getting a bagel or whatever, and $1 if I get a drink. I don't think I've even left a tip on a transaction with plastic because that adds time/hassle.

the mastercard debit commercials ("don't let cash slow you down") are working against you.

I like to grab a big handful of change from my home change jar and cart it over to the coffee shop. When its my turn in line, I slowly count it out (I've got a lot of nickels and pennies) and pay that way. Of course, some times I don't bring enough to cover the bill, so I use my credit card to make up the difference.

You're old, Dan. People of my generation only use cash for drugs.

"Most places set a $5 minimum bill for debit/credit card usage."

Which is, in fact, a violation of their merchant agreement with the card issuers.

Show us some documentation, BC. I don't buy it.

Nevermind the waste of time if you want to argue this point: It costs merchants a certain amount of money for each transaction, and the smaller a transaction gets, the more it costs said merchant to accept the transaction and the less practical accepting cards becomes.

I work for the state Liquor Control Board. We have the slowest machines in the state plus the cheapest readers available. Some advice to the coffee shops: get faster lines and better readers. Some advice to those waiting in line: yes, as Dan says - if you know this is an issue pay with cash (and goodness knows, I WISH the state had cash only lines). Some advice on those who pay with cards: you're going to wait, why not make it pleasant, like by acknowledging your cashier and make small talk and don't complain about the machines (hint: we've been hearing about it for years and we know the problems) - complain to your representative (it IS a state enterprise).

It seems to me, though, that the choice of espresso stand is infinitely better in Washington than your choice of Liquor store. Got a problem with their readers and the speed? Go to a different stand. I rarely wait in line at my local place for more than 30 seconds (a 30 seconds that I can take). More likely I am waiting because the person(s) in front of me hasn't decided on their order and wants to hear about the intricacies of some breakfast bar and cannot make up their mind(s) as if this is some goddamned 5 star restaurant. Hey, they ARE spending more than $5, but while they do it, 10 of us could have gone through an express lane.

Just to throw a wrench in things here, does anyone remember checks?

Does anyone remember going through the "express" lane at the grocery store, only to have the delightful character in front of you get their groceries rung up, and then watch while it occurs to them that they need to actually pay for these fine victuals? At which point they dig through their purse (this seemed to be a near universally female habit) to find the checkbook, flip though that, fill in the required information, hand it over to the cashier, wait for the cashier to read everything over, then, when asked for ID, dig back into the purse, fiddle about for some interminable period to find the wallet (of course separate from the checkbook), and dig out the dl?

I try to remember this experience each time I get stuck in the credit/debit card mess.

And just to get in one more plug for Victrola on this thread, their prepaid card is one hell of a deal. 12 short caps/lattes for $25?

Who carries cash anymore?

Baristas are way overtipped.

What really gets my goat is when the damn guy in a wheelchair in front of me can't reach his special money pouch, and when he does, the long, long wait as he painstakingly counts out exact change. I've already been delayed 4 minutes by the jerk on the bus, now I have to wait for him again at Starbucks? Getting my own Rascal is sounding like a sweeter and sweeter deal.

@30, check this out

Man, you Seattle weenies LOVE complaining about stupid, meaningless shit.

"Show us some documentation, BC. I don't buy it."

From Visa's FAQ:

Minimum Purchase

Visa merchants are not permitted to establish minimum transaction amounts, even on sale items. They also are not permitted to charge you a fee when you want to use your Visa card.

MasterCard has something similar.

If a merchant feels that the cost of accepting Visa/MC exceeds the value, then they have the option to stop accepting them.

Plastic doesn't bother me, it takes gramma the same amount of time to fish out exact change from her split plastic coin purse that her hands don't have the strength to open anymore. What drives me nuts are the extensive orders for one drink. If you can't ask for your drink in one breath- don't bother. You will have to repeat your request several times before the barista understands you. Then they write a dozen unintelligible codes they have to redecipher- and probably get it wrong half the time.
Those who merely want a cup of joe should be expressed through faster. It may not cost quite as much, but I'm still paying $2 for something anybody can make. And no, I don't tip for ordering a drip coffee, the same way I don't tip at the McDonald's drivethru.

Thank you, Dan.

Speed and waste are only part of it; there is also the privacy issue. What you plastic users are forgetting is that plastic purchases are trackable, by everybody from corporate marketeers to the government in anti-enemies mode (but that would never happen, right?). For practical purposes, cash is anonymous.

i only use bank debit cards and never use cash and boycott businesses which take cash only.

Oh, Jesus, the liquor stores. Those ARE the slowest credit/debit machines on God's green earth. I have time to run home and shave while waiting for my booze purchase to finish. I've seen people go into comas in the liquor store, and it doesn't hold up the line. I think they're still using 300-baud modems.

Interesting stuff, BC. Point taken.

At the same time, I bet no one complains because they knew if they did, smaller merchants would simply react by no longer accepting cards and going cash-only, as the resulting loss of business would cost less than accepting cards on small transactions and eating the fee.

Stop calling them/yourselves "baristas". You're a fucking coffee maker!

They need to find out what 7-11 is using. 7-11's credit card readers are amazingly fast, faster than digging change out of my pocket. And no minimum. I do wonder how much of the profit on a $1.19 Big Gulp gets sucked up by merchant fees.

i'm with you 100%, dan. i am also in full agreement with tipping your barista, although i will admit that my tipping fluctuates depending on the level of skill involved in the process.

fully automated machines at mcstarbucks? i call bullshit. you get the change, along with my shame at buying such crappy coffee to begin with.

but, someone working a 2 or 3 group la marzocco and delivering a beautiful crema to my cup? thank you so much, have at least one dollar for your trouble.

Mmmmmm Coffee.

"Interesting stuff, BC. Point taken."

Thanks, Gomez. Just don't get me started on requiring photo ID. Believe it or not, they can't do that, either.

Children, Children - please! Have another cup of coffee and get a grip. How long are we talking here? A few minutes at most. Cash is a filthy, disease spreading medium that infects thousands of innocent victims every day. The sooner it is abolished, the better. And Dan, why don't you have a cup of coffee at home before you go the espresso stand, that way you won't be so grumpy...

This reminds me of one of Bill Maher's new rules. I couldn't find the text anywhere, so I will paraphrase:

"The longer the coffee order, the bigger the asshole."

More coffee shops should just become cash only or, limit credit and debit transactions to amounts of $20 or higher. Pretty simple, now if that customer were in a wheelchair, it would slow the line down no matter what.

I NEVER have $5 in my pocket, ever (well, almost never). And I buy coffee w/ my debit ALL the time. It takes about 30 seconds in this technolgical world that we live in. I rarely spend mor than $5. Usually its about 1.50 - 2.00 on my debit. My reasoning... I take the bus and there is not a WAMU within 1/2 mile walking distance of my house or job and I refuse to pay $1 - $2 atm fee for using another banks atm. Its a tradeoff. My suggestion is next time it bugs you just offer to buy for thr whole line of debit users. I'm sure you will feel great as will everyone else.

I NEVER have $5 in my pocket, ever (well, almost never). And I buy coffee w/ my debit ALL the time. It takes about 30 seconds in this technolgical world that we live in. I rarely spend mor than $5. Usually its about 1.50 - 2.00 on my debit. My reasoning... I take the bus and there is not a WAMU within 1/2 mile walking distance of my house or job and I refuse to pay $1 - $2 atm fee for using another banks atm. Its a tradeoff. My suggestion is next time it bugs you just offer to buy for the whole line of debit users. I'm sure you will feel great as will everyone else.

Dan, you can't beat Erika's post. Just get over it. Just be glad about Santorum and move on. Not even the debate (hah!) over the Underwater Tunnel versus the incredible views while driving on the improved sound and earthquake buffered Viaduct won't get you more. It's all about the busses, mon!

"Most places set a $5 minimum bill for debit/credit card usage. I think a good place sets this as standard policy."

Legally, they can't do it. They're in VIOLATION of the credit card agreements.

Yesterday, impatient Erica. Today, impatient Dan.

Tomorrow, can we expect an impatient rant from Josh about having to wait in line at movie theaters on opening nights?

FNARF, my what a snit you're in today. You might be surprised to find out that some liquor stores have upgraded from the 300 Baud modems (but not all). Also, their computers in back tend to have between 64 MB and 128 MB of RAM, run Windows 2000 at either service pack 2 or 3. Average hard drive space? 10 - 20 GB, if they are lucky.

FWIW, they are (finally) slowly upgrading to a WAN.

Yeah, sorry, but I think you're fighting a losing battle on this one. I'm 27, and none of my friends carry cash on a regular basis, nor do I. I don't go to places that are cash-only. And if I knew how to turn stores in to Visa/Mastercard for their policies, which are indeed often against their merchant agreements, I would.

For the record:
- I live pretty much directly in-between Vivace and Victrola, and I go to Vivace because they don't give me shit about using plastic (and, ok, recently because Victrola fired their awesome roaster)
and
- I always tip a full dollar when I use plastic, whereas if I do use cash, I only tip the actual change, which is obviously less than a dollar

I agree that bitching about debit/credit card use for tiny purchases is pretty futile, as we're moving toward a cashless society. And really, I have to say the thing that holds up the coffee line more than anything else is when the barista is talking to a friend, or chatting to another barista about what they did last night.

I would much rather stand in a line held up by someone paying with plastic, or even all in pennies, than one that's not moving because the barista is more interested in their conversation than what they're doing.
And yes, I slung coffee for 5 years so I do know what it's like to deal with annoying people all day long for minimum wage, but that's the job. It's pretty amazing how doing the job well actually increases the number of happy customers who come back and tip well.

Vivace and Top Pot downtown always give excellent and speedy service no matter how long the line is; I don't even go to Caffe Vita anymore because it takes 10 minutes to get out of there even when there's no one in front of me!

Dan, you should quit being such a whiny little bitch! Some people don't have a need to carry cash anymore, deal with it.

Point of order:

Doesn't Dan have a right to be a whiny bitch since he personally destroyed Santorum?

You know, as a matter of policy.

Dan,
Nice nostalgia. But no one carries cash anymore.

I'm sorry, B. D., did you say 64 MB of RAM? That's hysterical. It must take them an hour to boot that copy of Win2k; I didn't even know you could run it in 64 MB. They must have to swap out a dozen pages every time they press the SHIFT key. It's tragic, really it is.

And why do they need a WAN? What they really need is BETTER BOOZE. I could run a better liquor store myself with a deck of file cards and a bowling pencil.

I think everyone ignored the most cogent point made by Dope (37)

Um... Dan?

You wait in line and pay $1.65 for tea that you can make at home for a quarter (or less) with no waiting?

Wow, you're dumber then I thought.

Guys. Girls. EVERYONE:

Allow me to speak on behalf of your heart. It's really upset. What with your your constant caffeine intake (and it is CONSTANT) and everything, your blood pressure is way too high. This problem is further exasperated by your obsession with the unfairness of waiting in line. Here is my suggestion: Don't worry about that extra four seconds that everyone paying with a card is "costing" you. Calm down, take a deep breath. Perhaps admire the fine art adorning the walls of your coffeehouse of choice. Enjoy the upbeat music pumping gently from the overhead PA system. Smile and consider how delicious your espresso beverage will be. In absolutely no time, you'll find yourself at the front of the line and confronted by your cheerful local barista. Give them a big grin (better than your $0.25 tip any day) and tell them: "Life is good."

(By the way, I think cards are faster than cash. Quick swipe, and you're on your way. No messy change to deal with, no counting. Besides, get with the 21st century. They're here to stay.)

FNARF, on the point of running the liquor store with file cards and a pencil, we're agreed. The LCB does a mediocre to horrible job of running the stores. There are benefits and setbacks to all of their methods, but they will always and forever promote themselves, um, I mean the benefits. The LCB is full of nasty little dictators with their own empires to protect and promote, which they do very well, apparently, since very few people are willing to investigate them and highlight the failures.

What failures, you say? After all, sales are up 38% over the previous year. How can that be a failure? Well, take for instance, your complaint about the stock in stores. Or, for instance, the fact that store managers cannot decide what to stock in their own stores. Or for instance, that store managers regularly get shorted on 25 - 33% of the orders that they place from the distribution center. Or, for instance, that said distribution center is so overloaded that it is above capacity. Or, for instance, that the people at said distribution center are known to complain when orders from the stores are, in their words, "too much". Or that LCB managers regularly go on tasting junkets when virtually none of them serve, sell, or come into contact with the public actually buying the product, but if store clerks want a taste, then that's considered unethical/extortion/theft. Or, for instance, that most "theft" cameras in stores are pointed towards clerks and back rooms and not towards the shelves. Or that clerks are paid fairly little for someone that is, in essence, fulfilling a law enforcement position, stocking/running a store, preventing theft, and may face a $500 fine and firing for a misstep in a sale and, to top it off, regularly faces sting operations from both the LCB and local authorities.

I could go on, but the LCB is basically screwed. Oh, and the WAN - it will make those debit or credit purchases much faster (or so I'm told) so people can quit complaining about the plastic users. And, for the record, I have seen 2 PCs that have 64MB of RAM. Most that I've encountered are at 128MB. And, yes, I was shocked, too, that they were running W2K.

Cash won't even be a payment option in another 20 years. It's like the stock market - who actually exchanges the paper shares anymore when there are E-Trade accounts. Besides, think of all the money the government could save if it didn't have to mint cash and coins. If someone gives/sends me cash, I promptly deposit it into my checking account.

Bah - get over it, Dan. It's the 21st century, and cash is a relic of the past. Now, those people who pull out their checkbook at the QFC (and it's always after all their groceries are scanned, too) ... those people deserve death.