Comments on The Morning News

Please, John. Just go away. At this point, you won't be able to run for dogcatcher in Dorchester, but don't try to drag the rest of the party down with you.

I love the way they make it a "cute" story about the morbidly obese women so fat and hungry she doesnt know she's pregnant. Yeah, that's real cute.

yeah, not too mention she didn't notice that her crotch stopped bleeding each month.

what the hell.

or was she still having aunt flow over?

the real question is, who knocked her up in the first place?

'Crat-controlled CBS is spinning like a spinner for Kerry this morning, & Kerry in total tone-def mode is spinning himself. Kantwell is silent, but she invited the big dope into our town to buy a Big Dicks at Dick's on Cap Hill. Kantwell has some 'splaining to do. Was her howdy to Senator Hairspray an endorsement of his idiocy?

As for the idiot himself, he jus' keeps on digging himself into a deeper hole, no swiftboaters in sight. He dug this one totally on his own. Dig it.

Concerning Nickels' backing a four-lane tunnel... Truth be told, that idea has been out there for quite a while now. For Nickels to be latching on to that only now is a real sign of desperation and weakness, the last things a politician in his position wants to show. In fact, this shift by Nickels can really be seen as the death knell for the tunnel.

The real question now for transit and density advocates becomes, "How do we prevent a rebuild?" Obviously, this is a political question, and obviously, Christine Gregoire plays a big part in the answer. The only hope I can see with Gregoire is that she says, "Okay, if Seattle can't get its act together on the viaduct, I'm shifting all the viaduct money to 520."

But if she takes that stance, that kinda lends itself to the retrofit -- which goes back to the question of just how feasible that is. I would be curious to know what Cary Moon and PWC's political strategy is concerning Gregoire's possible decisions.

Part 1 of the Previous Post ...

Democrats dicking their own: The KKK Party (KerryKantwellKennedy) is showing its true colors, pink & yellow. Yesterday, in mere moments, Bwana Dan went from doing what he does best (Buju-bullying & beating up black people: Oreo Ken Blackwell, who stole Ohio for Rove in 2004, is going down!) to whimpering about going down with very hairy Kerry for the very last time.

Let's try to be honest, as NPR was uncharacteristically honest this morning. Ken & Karl didn't steal anything from you in 2004. You lost Ohio because our organization was better than yours. Having Conyers or a Kennedy baby or neo-Marxist Harper's spew lies to the contrary doesn't make the lies true. You lost; we won; get used to it.

The only proven incidents of voter intimidation in 2004 were by Taliban Democrat tire slashers. The counties having election problems were counties in which elections were run by Democrats, with King County as final proof & "Governor" Gregoire as the unfortunate result.

The best man in Ohio, Ken Blackwell, will probably lose next week. Dan can feel good about his bigotry, and can claim concurrently that Harold Ford went down in Tennessee because of ... bigotry.

How convenient. Being a Democrat means never having to say you're wrong or sorry. Just ask Kerry. Actually, don't. I'm ok with being baffled by bullshit; that's why we're all here on the Slog. But being baffled by a pompous clueless droning monotone bullshitter is just too much.

RE: The Kerry comments

Every year I think that it can’t possibly get any worse, and yet every year the Republicans and the media manage to stoop to a new low and disgrace and humiliate our nation.

Even a five year old reading Kerry’s full quote would know that it was directed at Bush, yet the R’s and their enablers in the media have somehow managed to make some offhand remark a campaign issue. No one is even bothering to address the issues facing the country or the failed policies, lies and corruption that got us to this point.

So that’s the theme this year, when all else fails resort to open lying. And why not? No one will hold the media (hello Seattle Times Editorial Board) or the Republicans responsible. Even the Stranger puts forth the ridiculous and untestable hypothesis that Kerry’s comments are somehow going to cost the Dems the election.

No matter who wins next Tuesday, the people of this country are going to get the government they deserve.

Will somebody tell Mayor gridlock that the WSDOT already rejected the 4 lane tunnel back when they were originally considering options?

Of course, that didn't stop the surface option proponents, but still.

Gomez: Will somebody tell Mayor gridlock that the WSDOT already rejected the 4 lane tunnel back when they were originally considering options?

Of course, that didn't stop the surface option proponents, but still.

This is a bit like saying Donald Rumsfeld and the Pentagon already rejected the "Let's invade Iraq with superior force" option, not to mention the "Let's not invade Iraq at all" option.

Or to use another analogy, relying on WSDOT as the voice of God on transportation and land-use planning is a bit like relying on the fox to design the chicken coop.

Josh, thank you for the Botha obituary. It's fitting on this All Saint's Day of the Dead. The implication that 'I' protested him is a bit haughty of 'you', but no big deal (you'll always slip some of your novice ego into your 'reporting').

But the article is very informative. South Africa seems to be a scary place, with perhaps unsolvable racial tension.

I see we have some conservative paranoids out this morning. I didn't think they came out during daylight.

Go back to bed Milhous et al. You're scaring the children

This quite possible the worst string of blog responses I've read on Slog. We've got tunnels interwoven with Rumsfeld, KKK (!) and NPR (?), etc. All I can digest from this overwrought grisle is angst. Please, block all responses to The Morning Newsl, including this one.

Seattle98104 -

The story says she continued to bleed during the pregnancy. Also that she has polycystic ovarian syndrome (PCOS) which is characterized by high levels of androgens which make getting pregnant difficult (um....) due to eggs not maturing, an irregular or no menstrual cycle, weight gain, and other fun. She'd had an ovary removed due to PCOS, which would also make pregnancy less likely.

Mike - her boyfriend of 3 years. They already had a 14-month-old.

Um, cressona, they're CIVIL ENGINEERS. Cary Moon is just an activist hack.

Paranoia,

I think the switch to Daylight Savings has messed up the Freepers circadian rhythms.

Let's face it: they're going to continue to hammer at inconsequencials like the Cantwell & Kerry "controversies", because THAT'S ALL THEY HAVE. The GOP seems incapable of debating the issues, and they sure can't debate on character, so they only crutch they've got left is to go to their "hail Mary" mudslinging, and hope enough of it sticks to sway a few of the now-wavering faithful to stay the course.

But, they're relying on that famous Democratic contrition in order to execute the play successfully; if they don't get it, their only recourse is to piss on the field even more and hope they can slap together enough mud pies between now and Tuesday to have some sort of effect.

They're scared, desperate, and down on points; let's keep 'em that way for a few more days.

Gomez on his absolute faith in WSDOT: Um, cressona, they're CIVIL ENGINEERS. Cary Moon is just an activist hack.

This is a bit like an IT (information technology) manager accepting at face value everything Microsoft tells them they should buy, because, "They're programmers over at Microsoft. Very good programmers."

But hey, if I wanted Seattle to look more like Los Angeles -- with its traffic-choked mega-freeways -- I'd put my faith in the "impartial" advice of WSDOT too.

That's why I prefer IT managers who don't know dick either way. Adds a little excitement to your day.

I trust an engineer held to strict accountability standards a lot more than I trust some dreaming idealist with a pipe dream.

And civil engineers are only a part of the equation when it comes to projects like this. the world would be a bleak, miserable place if the only people planning major public works projects were civil engineers (no offense to any of you out there...u are definitely one important part of the puzzle).

Gomez: I trust an engineer held to strict accountability standards a lot more than I trust some dreaming idealist with a pipe dream.

Hey, I'm sure Rummy and his hacks at the Pentagon are held to some "strict accountability standards" too, whatever that means.

The reality is that the generals in the Army and the engineers at WSDOT make technical decisions. But ultimately, the choices that are made by the Pentagon/administration and WSDOT/governor are political decisions. To think otherwise shows a level of naïveté which that dreamer Cary Moon could only dream of possessing.

(Hey Gomez, aren't you the same person who made a pun about an "Elway poll"? You sound like a pretty sharp fellow.)

Gomez, could you at least acknowledge that Cary Moon has some sort of professional background relevant to this discussion? no, she's not an engineer...but it's not like she's a bartender or teacher or something completely unrelated.

Two things:

1. 4 lane underwater tunnel - I correct what I said about "no net increase in capacity" - it should now read "net decrease in capacity". Bad idea, bad tunnel, bad plan, let's get real.

2. Kerry v Bush - actually, most analysis says this hurts Bush more as it puts him back on Iraq.

Kerry better stick to his guns. If he apologizes now, it will vindicate the assholes attacking him, make him look weak, and will demonstrate to fence sitters that he did insult the troops.

Okay, Ginger, what is this mythical background of Cary Moon?

I went to school for engineering for about a year, but does that make me supremely qualified as an expert on the subject, over people who actually do it for a living?

I like John Kerry. But what bugs me is why he didn't want to apologize. I believe that he was trying to make a joke against 'W. But since it got botched , you'd think he'd bend over backwards saying he misspoke because no matter what you say it's how people interpret it is what counts. He clearly has stubborn anger seething in him. For good reason, I concur. But it certainty doesn't help him politically.

Will in Seattle: "net decrease in capacity" = "Bad idea."

Hey, if I were a freeways guy, I would feel the same way. Will really, you ought to start a group, "Transit Activists for Elevated Downtown Freeways." Sure, it would be a little like "Jews for Ahmadinejad," but hey, we already have the "Log Cabin Republicans," so anything is possible.

Let's keep in mind here, we're talking net decrease in vehicle capacity. As Peter Hurley, former exec. director of Transportation Choices Coalition was fond of saying, we should be focusing on the movement of people and goods, not the movement of vehicles.

Anyway, I'm not about to defend the four-lane tunnel idea since, even though it's more reasonable in my book than the six-lane, because I can't imagine it gaining any traction. At this point, it's the last-ditch gambit of a compromised leader.

Gomez: Okay, Ginger, what is this mythical background of Cary Moon?

I went to school for engineering for about a year, but does that make me supremely qualified as an expert on the subject, over people who actually do it for a living?

Uh, Gomez. You could have a PhD in engineering, Cary Moon could have a PhD in engineering, and that still doesn't change the reality that the viaduct-replacement choices that have been handed down to us from on high are fundamentally political in nature.

From reading your enlightened comments, Gomez, it sounds like that year you put in at engineering school could have been better spent at common-sense school.

Geezus, Gomez, you're misinterpreting people's statements all over the Slog today. I didn't say she had a "mythical background," or imply anything of the sort. I said "some sort of professional background relevant to this discussion." I don't know her personally, so I'm sure I'm missing something, but she's a landscape architect and urban designer, and a former member of the Seattle Design Commission. My point was taking issue with your characterization of her as an "activist hack." I don't expect her to do the engineering work on the project...but she does have some experience with urban design.

You didn't disprove my point at all, cressona. FAIL. They're still engineers. How does Cary Moon make her plan work? How does she know engineers can even make it feasible?

She doesn't.

Ginger, she's also not an engineer. Planners don't have to make their ideas actually work. That's the job of a group of engineers and contractors.

Let's keep in mind here, we're talking net decrease in vehicle capacity. ...we should be focusing on the movement of people and goods, not the movement of vehicles.

That's a pipe dream. Traffic volumes always increase. I doubt there's any example of a U.S. city successfully decreasing traffic volumes by adding transit, though they may have slowed the growth *rate*. Subtracting capacity is inevitably going to lead to more traffic jams. If you think the viaduct is ugly and polluting, wait until you have thousands of cars a day in gridlock at surface level, and you have to dash across a freeway to get to the waterfront.

I'm with Gomez. It's not like civil engineers have ever foisted anything ugly or unworkable on an unsuspecting urban population. Except, of course, for the viaduct itself.

Kerry was not trying to make a joke. That's his back peddling. He was deliberately insulting the U.S. military. Just as he did during Vietnam in front of that Senate committee. This is the guy who threw a fellow soldier's medals over the White House fence making it look like they were his.

He, as do other present day liberal elitists hate the US military. That's the reason he's not apologizing.

Gomez: You didn't disprove my point at all, cressona. FAIL. They're still engineers. How does Cary Moon make her plan work? How does she know engineers can even make it feasible?

Actually, Gomez, your point wasn't that Cary Moon can prove her plan works. Your point was that we should trust WSDOT's plans because WSDOT has engineers.

But hey, if our lovely, little conversation has degenerated to "You didn't disprove my point, FAIL" -- well then, maybe our lovely, little conversation has run its course.

(Some advice. I also find it works just as well to say, "Yeah, you disproved my point. NOT." You can't miss with a tried-and-true turn of phrase.)

Gomez, did you miss my point (notice i'm not assuming you did)? Just as urban planners aren't the only part of the process, neither are civil engineers. Yes, they're necessary, but not everything. you can put on a play with actors, but if you add in designers and a director, it's a completely different experience.

There are engineers supporting all of the options (tunnel, rebuild, retrofit, and surface/transit).

Dan Savage: I'm with Gomez. It's not like civil engineers have ever foisted anything ugly or unworkable on an unsuspecting urban population. Except, of course, for the viaduct itself.

This reminds me, to go back to the Iraq war analogy, Maureen Dowd has a great column in today's New York Times on the value of professional experience. Excerpt:

But if there’s one thing W.’s reign proves beyond a shadow of a doubt, it is this: Experience, like affectations, can be dangerous.

They will fill up history books with all the myopic misjudgments made by a war council with a couple of centuries of experience,...

Not quite, cressona. I'm saying that I shouldn't trust Cary Moon or any other urban activist when she or any of them tells me that a group of WSDOT civil engineers and their research are completely wrong.

Orv on Peter Hurley's truism that capacity should focus on moving people and goods, not moving vehicles: That's a pipe dream. Traffic volumes always increase. I doubt there's any example of a U.S. city successfully decreasing traffic volumes by adding transit, though they may have slowed the growth *rate*.

It's remarkable the times we live in that putting people ahead of vehicles would be taken as a radical, incredible statement. However, I don't quite get the link between this and traffic volumes increasing or decreasing. You look at any city that has invested its fortune in mass transit rather than highways and they have terrible traffic. New York, London, Moscow. Try driving in any of those cities. But in all those cities, people have a quick, convenient alternative. The same cannot be said for the Houstons and Phoenixes.

More Orv: Subtracting capacity is inevitably going to lead to more traffic jams. If you think the viaduct is ugly and polluting, wait until you have thousands of cars a day in gridlock at surface level, and you have to dash across a freeway to get to the waterfront.

Actually, this is a classic "faux environmentalist" build-more-freeways argument, and it's the same argument that Nick Licata of all people recently made in his op-ed in favor of building a new, 50%-larger viaduct. It goes like this: the less freeway mileage we have, the more traffic-clogged the freeways will be. The same car burns far more gas and spews far more pollution in stop-and-go 10 mph traffic than it would if it were zipping along at 50 mph. Ergo -- hey, the answer to automobile pollution is to spend billions of dollars building more infrastructure for automobiles.

Well, I guess the basic premise of this argument is that it's impossible for human beings with freedom of choice to live without being completely dependent on automobiles to get everywhere.

Erm, I mean Ginger. When I get ganged up on by urbanists, I get confused :P

Also, Dan, gotta agree that the viaduct is an eyesore. It has a legitimate use, but it is an eyesore and worn and dank and a blight.

Gomez: Not quite, cressona. I'm saying that I shouldn't trust Cary Moon or any other urban activist when she or any of them tells me that a group of WSDOT civil engineers and their research are completely wrong.

Y'know, if it makes you feel better, Gomez, I'm perfectly happy to let you have the last word. And I loved the "Elway poll" pun too. Keep them wacky jokes comin', please.

Mike D, post #13, was the best post here.

PGR. I think we've finally found something we can agree on: The worthlessness of John Kerry!

* This morning the Slog incorrectly identified Harold Ford as "Harold Ford." The Slog should have identified Harold Ford as "Harold Ford, Playmate of the Year." The Slog regrets the error.

* The Slog failed to note that an imam in Manchester England England (across the Atlantic Sea) did not call for death to America, but did call for death to homosexuals, which is almost the same thing. The Slog regrets the error. Allahu Akhbar!

* The secular fundamentalist Slog often notes that all fundamentalisms are created equal, & are equally wicked. The s/f Slog failed to note that homosexual Bruce Bawer, who fled with his pardner to Holland because fundamentalists Falwell & Robertson wouldn't let them marry, notes that fundamentalist Moslems in Holland want them dead, a notable difference. The Slog regrets the erroneous omission. Your Mahdi or your life!

* For about the 365th night, the Slog failed to note that the civil-war-holy-war in France continues, with a youthful Moslem underclass in full revolt against the enlightened culture that was too good & too hip & too nuanced for the simplistic primitivism of George Quincy Bush. The Slog regrets the nocturnal omission. Hello Mudduh, Intafadah!

Savage @33

Um, Dan, the Viaduct remains fully functional and is still the most efficient way to get through downtown after 50+ years of service and 2 serious earthquakes. I'd say the civil engineers did a pretty damn good job with it.

But you'd never let little facts like that get in the way of your dogma, now would you?

I'll give Gomez the last word on the viaduct issue.

but this is the best headline of the day: "Gates Foundation giving $46 million to fight diarrhea"

But why did it take so long? If Bill & Ms. Melinda (back then) had been paying attention in 1993, they would have learned from P.J. O'Rourke that for mere nickels & dimes per packet of electrolytes, salts, millions of infants and children could be saved.

Diarrhea, alas, was not a glam disease. AIDS was, so that's where the dollars went. 'Activists' spun their plague of the month, AIDS, into a decades-long political shakedown, and it sucked most of the air and funding out of the room.

And then there's the belated attention given by B & M to malaria, for which an almost benign remedy was taken out by pampered pallid rich effete American eco-elitists. DDT would not have wiped malaria out, since isolated resistance would have emerged, but the lives of millions would have been saved or prolonged. But we're talking about poor dark people, far far away from the Santorum cocktails that lubricate the liberal American conscience.

You're so full of crap your eyes are brown, Milhous. You want to bring DDT back? You're a fucking nutjob asshole.

No, Milhous just wants the poor black people to be poisoned with it.

"You're a fucking nutjob asshole." More unflattened nuance from the shithouse turd eater.

Pull your heads out of your nutjob assholes, assholes, & do the research. Read past Rachel Carson, particularly if you can read without moving your lips, & try to learn something.

DDT is poison if, like water, it's excessively used. Too much DDT? Thinned egg shells. Too much water? Death by drowning. DDT as it was used for decades on the walls of homes & huts in the tropics? A magnificently benign defense against death by malaria.

Cressona - my group is Double Local Transit. If you want to start a group called Double Local Taxes with Less Transit and Capacity, go for it.

I'm sure the Bushies would fund you ...