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1

We are the Romans, only without the vomitoriums.

Posted by djfits | November 10, 2006 12:29 PM
2

Everyone should be allowed to ride in ambulances. What if you woke up one morning and found that you were morbidly obese? The slim should walk to the hospital and be glad that they can.

Posted by poop | November 10, 2006 12:37 PM
3

Fat people are gross and don't deserve medical care. My girlfriend and I moved here from Houston because we couldn't cope with all the fat people there. Besides, there weren't enough condos with hardwood floors, granite countertops and stainless steel appliances.

We're buying a condo in a building that is going to be built on East Pine Street, where some trashy bars for fat people are now. We're hoping there will be a Starbucks in the retail space, because that fits our lifestyle. We love Starbucks coffee!

Posted by Fat aint all that | November 10, 2006 12:39 PM
4

I'd rather see them put the $$ they would have spent on ambulances into prevention---educating re HFCS, requiring fast food places to put nutritional labels on every single thing they sell, requiring the schools pull the soda machines out, etc.

Posted by amazonmidwife | November 10, 2006 12:55 PM
5

these fat fucks really piss me off. don't give me no thyroid bullshit either. they're fat cuz they're lazy and depressed. eat a fucking bullet instead of another fucking cheeseburger.

Posted by fat_hater | November 10, 2006 1:03 PM
6

Special favors for special people? NO. It's time for a fat tax, we can have no free lunch for fatties. Where is Tim Eyeman when when could really use him...the brown eye-man needs to initiate a fat tab tax. Say, a yearly $5 for every 10lbs over your HWP average, a FAT free, NOT a flat fee. It's not fair HWPs pay for non-HWPs who MADE themselves fat. $50K extra for fatties is special interests taking advantage again

Posted by notsoskinny | November 10, 2006 1:07 PM
7

What do I think? I think this post is a lame attempt to apple-and-orange your way out of yesterday's post in which you proposed the banning of disabled people from express buses. But that's just what I think!

Posted by jameyb | November 10, 2006 1:11 PM
8

I'm all for fatbulances, as long as the end user pays for the cost difference. People with other special needs have to pay for their special treatments too.

Posted by ky | November 10, 2006 1:14 PM
9

Yes, Erica, tell us, what do YOU think of this? Quit trying to be a cheap Michelle Malkin knock-off, and just come right out with it. At least Michelle Malkin has the guts to defend her moonbat viewpoints (eg. should we intern Iraqi-Americans?)

Posted by whatevah | November 10, 2006 1:16 PM
10

Funny how the dilemma of being so fucking fat in the first place is never addressed.

You demand rights, Rosenthal? I demand the right to stage interventions to stop people like you from eating themselves into a giant (pun intended) burden at the expense of this nation's resources.

Posted by Gomez | November 10, 2006 1:23 PM
11

I say cut all school funding and throw the cash into special sidewalks that won't collapse when someone who weighs a half a ton slips in the rain and falls.

Just kidding, fat people don't walk.

Posted by Ari Spool | November 10, 2006 1:31 PM
12

Hey fat haters, are there not more important issues to be angry about? Especially since making value judgements (in fact attacks) about an entire body type includes those who are fat for different reasons - choice, genetics, depression, being raised on a poor diet, and so on.

I feel like this should be obvious, but I need to remind myself that the slog often promotes either a ignorant middle school bully mentality (shown here) or a pseudoeducated knowitall high school one (shown elsewhere). Who are you guys in real life?

Posted by Jude Fawley | November 10, 2006 1:35 PM
13

Just because you tell fat people they shouldn't be fat doesn't change the fact that they're fat. You're right. Leave them to die on the street because they're not as pretty as you.

Do you really believe that there are hoards of fat people rolling around in mountains of McGriddles and jacking off to pictures of their shiny new ambulances? Being fat sucks. Nobody wants to be fat. Quit being such a dick.

Posted by john goodman | November 10, 2006 1:48 PM
14

As long as it's only in express ambulances that you selfish people ride to work, otherwise let fat people die. They certainly don't need to get to work as quickly as we slim people do.
With all those loaded people and the highest ciggie taxes in the nation, NYC certainly can't afford THIS!

Posted by Ben in Redmond | November 10, 2006 1:48 PM
15

Somebody call Cook Ding.

Posted by Redshirt | November 10, 2006 1:53 PM
16

I'm not going to defend nor accept defense of a lifestyle that features laziness and terrible eating habits, and leads to health problems that burden our nation's health care systems and governments, while increasing our energy costs due to gas wasted in transporting their sheer girth.

Yes, I'm a fat hater. I hate people who destroy themselves at others' expense, and ask us to love them for it.

Posted by Gomez | November 10, 2006 1:56 PM
17

As long they aren't in wheelcheers, I don't see what the problem is! Right, Erica?

Posted by craig | November 10, 2006 1:57 PM
18

I feel like THIS should be obvious, but this is an actual debate that is currently going on in New York. All I did was link to a NY Post story about the debate. Does the Post - not to mention the entire NYC city council - have a "school bully mentality" because they're discussing the issue?

Posted by ECB | November 10, 2006 2:01 PM
19

Oh what a tenuous line you are teetering on, Erica. This is a juvenile "journalistic" baiting tactic at its worst. "I'm not 'saying' anything, I'm just linking off to somewhere else." You are rational, objective, immune. Ah, the wisdom.

Here's one for you: Evolution is just a "theory" and actually all of life can be proven to be a result of Intelligent Design. Now...let's "discuss the issue" like rational adults!

Trying to provide a separate example of the city of New York discussing a potentially taboo topic when you got properly and thoroughly lambasted for your "No wheelchairs on express buses" post won't work. We can see right through you.

Posted by Monkey Girl | November 10, 2006 2:13 PM
20

Uh, Gomez, people make all kinds of bad choices. People get cirrhosis and lung cancer and HIV. People go on vacation and come back with malaria and brain worms. People die in childbirth. People let horses fuck them to death in the butt. And yes, people eat too many cheeseburgers and have heart attacks. Let's close the hospitals to alcoholics and junkies and smokers and tourists and extreme sporters and pregnant women and horsefuckers. And frat boys with alcohol poisoning. And depressed people who attempt suicide. And fatties. Their bad choices are costing you money.

Posted by I'm Yul Brynner and I'm dead now. | November 10, 2006 2:13 PM
21

Of COURSE the Post has a school bully mentality. It’s the POST. Frankly, you should be thinking twice about posting ANYTHING about access and the body. Have someone else in the office do it, even if it is just a link. Your posts now carry the burden of coming from a person who has just recently propagated one of the most obnoxiously ableist "debates" I have read in some time.

Posted by craig | November 10, 2006 2:13 PM
22

ECB - I was refering to the fat-hating responses, not your post. Wasn't that obvious? :)

Posted by Jude Fawley | November 10, 2006 2:14 PM
23

Fat people are more likely to need ambulances, so ambulances should be designed to accomodate them. It's also unfair to expect paramedics to be able to lift someone who weighs 500 pounds.

It would be nice if insurance companies started treating the morbidly obese like smokers. Smokers pay more for health insurance. I see no reason why the morbidly obese (Note: people who are hundreds of pounds overweight) shouldn't have to do the same.

Posted by keshmeshi | November 10, 2006 2:24 PM
24

it is something that one has to do to serve the people, and as a result, it *has* to be done by the public sector. You can't turn away people of any size, since no one loses their rights as a citizen when they hit 400 pounds.

However, I am sick of people assuming that this is something which should be defended or seen as normal and acceptable. There are plenty of body types in other countries, and yes, there are people who are large and husky even in cultures where physical activity is a strong part of the culture.

But Americans take the obesity epidemic to a completely different (and pathetic) level, and to think that this is in *any* respect a positive thing for anyone to be 400 (!!) pounds is disgusting. To me, it is akin to celebrating and encouraging hardcore alcoholics, bulemics, or people that smoke around their children.

And yes, I'm passionate about this because I've had several family members that have been too stupid to realize how being overweight can cut their lives short. So before any of you bloviate about "fatty haters", why don't you just realize that when you shove that twinkie down your gullet, you're not just killing yourself in slow motion, you're also affecting your friends and relatives, and providing a poor role-model for the children around you.

Posted by angry and not completely skinny | November 10, 2006 2:27 PM
25

Hey, the article says that he *WAS* able to ride in a regular ambulance -- he just had to be strapped to the floor. Seems to me this is about dignity, not medical care. Sounds like an awfully expensive proposition just so that he can not be upset when he arrives at the hospital. Come on, he's having a stroke! He's got more important things to worry about.

In any event, I don't think it's a big deal to have one or two of these around to accommodate non-emergency transfers.

Posted by Big Adventure Steve | November 10, 2006 2:35 PM
26

People go on vacation and come back with malaria and brain worms. People die in childbirth. People let horses fuck them to death in the butt. And yes, people eat too many cheeseburgers and have heart attacks.

Um, that doesn't mean we should celebrate them, the way fatties ask us to celebrate, accept and love them.

I'm gonna ignore the brain-dead-stupid exaggeration that followed that italicized point.

Also, 23 and 24 are EXCELLENT points. Thumbs up to you both.

Posted by Gomez | November 10, 2006 2:59 PM
27

wait a minute, Gomez, I've seen you, you're kind of a fatty...

Posted by somembody notme | November 10, 2006 3:21 PM
28

Red Shirt is on this one:

SOMEBODY CALL COOK DING!

Posted by mirror | November 10, 2006 3:29 PM
29

Well, that begs the obvious question:

HOW
FAT
AM
I?

BTW, 5'10", 175. I still fit loosely into 34 inch pants, so even if so, I can't be THAT fat.

Posted by Gomez | November 10, 2006 3:38 PM
30

Ambulances are for sick people, not healthy people. Being morbidly obese is a sickness, am I right? We're not talking about accomodating fatties in ordinary public facilities, we're talking about TAKING THEM TO THE HOSPITAL. It seems to me that the only question here is, what kind of vehicles do we need to meet the demand for tranporting the sick? The rest is air.

Posted by Fnarf | November 10, 2006 4:02 PM
31

Let's look at some facts, shall we?

1. No study has EVER directly linked obesity with mortality that was not confounded by other factors such as eating habits, pollution, poverty and mental illness, all of which have been proven to contribute to mortality on their own. A given fat person will not necessarily die sooner, nor require more medical treatment than a given thin person. And in fact, there is evidence that dieting itself is a health risk. Someone who is 50 lbs overweight is actually healthier STAYING at that weight (while otherwise eating healthy foods and staying active) than going on a crash diet.

2. Self-destructive behavior is a mental health issue. If someone is deliberately overeating, they need health care, not hatred. But then again, I suppose some of you also think we should refuse to address other forms of self-destructive behavior like extreme sports, cutting and barebacking.

3. There are about two dozen different medical conditions and medications that cause weight gain. Many of these conditions also present with mental health problems, which can compound the problem. Many endocrine system disorders, for instance, cause constant hunger, slowed metabolism and depression. Most of these illnesses are not behavior, but genetic. A person with a strong family history of diabetes will be likely to get it regardless of how much they weigh, and someone without that family history is unlikely to get it even if they weigh 400 lbs (although to get to that weight, chances are they have another genetic condition.)

4. Fat people--regardless of why they're fat--do not get thin overnight. Should they cease trying to have an otherwise-normal life while they're trying to improve their health? Do they cease being human, and deserving of basic services? If a given fat person has worked hard enough to drop 150 lbs, but then gets hit by a drunk driver while they're on the way to the gym, do they not deserve medical care? What about someone who has just begun a fight against an undiagnosed pituitary tumor?

Also, the health care costs thing? Bogus argument. First, health care costs are not like other commodities. Price is not set by supply and demand. Second, taxpayers pay very little of health care costs. Virtually all health care costs are paid for by insurance companies. These are for-profit companies that raise premiums merely for the sake of making more money--not because they're paying out more for illnesses. These are companies that deny treatment to sick kids because it's too expensive. They don't care about patients. Cutting off health care to fat people won't change their practices nor rates. Cutting off care to smokers didn't help, after all. In fact, the burden of pay is up on workers since smokers were required to pay more. How does that work?

Let's call this anti-fat hysteria for what it is: bigotry--and mostly bigotry against the disabled. This isn't about money, and we all know it. It's about refusing to admit that one has been brainwashed into believing what the diet, fashion and cosmetic industries sell as "acceptable" bodies. You sling this hatred because you're all slaves to marketers. Wake up, and realize that people are trying to sell you something along with the "fatties are evil" message.

Posted by Annoyed | November 10, 2006 5:02 PM
32

Again: what does this have to do with the ethics of being a fattie? It has to do with transporting sick people, period. This entire argument, both the "leave the pigs by the side of the road" side and the "obesity has nothing to do with health" side, is beside the point. And stupid. I'm talkin' to you, Annoyed; you can't have it both ways. Either anti-fat discrimination is "against the disabled" (who are disabled because they're fat?) or it's a lie promulgated by marketers. It can't be both.

Posted by Fnarf | November 10, 2006 5:16 PM
33

Holy shit people! Besides FNARF, ECB fished for some fantastic responses and sure as fuck got them. "I hate fat people!" "I am fat!" "I'm not fat because 'fat' is an oppresive term!" Jeeesus...

We should be spending money earmarked for such things in a way that will best serve people. If the spending the extra dough to accomodate the obese means cutting back to a degree that puts the public at risk (i.e. the extra $50k or so means losing an employee, cutting response time, buying additional vehicles, etc.), than I'd say don't do it.

Sounds reasonable one of these vehicles should be available for the occasion it's needed.

Posted by Dougsf | November 10, 2006 5:38 PM
34

i love fnarf

Posted by bolo | November 10, 2006 5:39 PM
35

FNARF (and Dougsf) - it seems you are ignoring the fact that some people feel very strongly that their tax money should not be spent to provide ambulances for very fat people because the fat people do not deserve the service, because they are responsible for their situation. At least to me, this is bigotry, and needs to be answered, even if it does not directly address the issue.

As for the practicalities of your suggestion, I guess in emergency situations the 911 operator would have to ask the person's weight in order to know whether a more accomodating ambulance should be sent... I suppose that is reasonable - maybe they already do that?

Posted by Jude Fawley | November 10, 2006 6:05 PM
36

5'10" / 175 lbs = 25.1 BMI = overweight

Posted by bmi calculator | November 10, 2006 6:20 PM
37

Jude - I think its reasonable that the caller communicate he/she may need special assistance (i.e. an ambulance equipt to accomodate their size). This might mean a longer response time due to limited availability, but that is a tradeoff people have to be willing to agree to under any extreme circumstance.

And yes, their are some bigoted comments here, but they're hardly worth addressing.

I agree with you though, "you shouldn't have made yourself fat" is about as responsable as telling people "you shouldn't have been having sex".

Posted by Dougsf | November 10, 2006 7:07 PM
38

There is a fundamental difference between being "overweight" and being "morbidly obese". The BMI calculator is garbage, quite honestly, as there are plenty of people defined as "overweight" that are far, far healthier than I am, and recent research has indeed suggested that being slightly to moderately overweight according to those measures is not a significant risk factor.

Not only that, but there are some not so fat people that also suffer from the effects of a bad diet and little exercise.

But let's look at the list, shall we? A higher incidence of stroke, type 2 diabetes, osteoarthritis, hypertension, sleep apnea, cardiovascular disease, all linked to being significantly overweight, all of which can be reduced with a loss of weight. If you're so big that you require all of these new gurneys and MRIs and the like, odds are that your health *is* negatively impacted. And telling people that they should be proud of who they are when they are morbidly obese is completely idiotic PC-laden garbage.

And yes, sure, I'm a bigot in some respects. But I'm not running down the street calling people Fatty McFatterson, or being otherwise impolite or disrespectful to people. It's not my job to tell people on the street that they are killing themselves. I just don't respect it as a "life choice" for friends or family. Again, it is akin to accepting that someone with emphysema is smoking, or someone with cirrosis is drinking, as a "life choice".

Posted by angry and not completely skinny | November 10, 2006 11:48 PM
39

But again, it doesn't matter what I think personally... they're still people, and citizens, and they need to be served. I don't like it, but that's the way that things work in a democracy.

Posted by bma | November 10, 2006 11:49 PM
40

Isn't 23-25 BMI around average?

If you want to call me fat, then that's your business, though that's pretty fresh when 30% of the population's got rolls coming out of their rolls, and their legs are wider than my waist. Also, take a survey of people who know me personally.

Also, #31 is just a bunch of excuses that doesn't apply to most of the affected population. That does not explain 30-35% of the populace being morbidly obese. If all these excuses were valid, then why didn't we see 30-35% of the population obese 50-100 years ago? Wouldn't they have applied then as well?

Don't make those excuses in a vacuum.

Posted by Gomez | November 11, 2006 2:20 PM
41

Is that your new theme? Making lists of people who shouldn't have public services because they're too inconvenient? And excusing yourself with this, "I'm just raising the issue," nonsense, knowing full well the kind of comments you're encouraging?

I bet you like to sit around patting yourself on the back, thinking, "Oh, someone posted that fat people should all shoot themselves. Oh, someone just endorsed segregating wheelchairs, I mean people in wheelchairs. I am simultaneously bold for bringing these topics up, and completely without blame for making it sound okay. Aren't I great?"

I'm glad I don't know you. Going by your articles, you seem vile, and a bit cowardly. At least most bigots get up the nerve to admit who they hate.

Posted by JC | November 11, 2006 4:06 PM
42

get used to it all you behemouth yanks. you are overweight to the tune of MILLIONS of TONS.

time to sell your shares in fast food conglomorates and then use the proceeds to take out ads condemning the whole fatburger calorie mentality and stratosheric cholesterol diets.

Posted by moi | November 11, 2006 4:52 PM

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