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Friday, July 14, 2006

More on the Mayor’s Proposed New Club Restrictions

Posted by on July 14 at 12:56 PM

Yesterday I got a furious voice mail from mayoral spokesman Marty McOmber (who has a policy of not speaking to the Stranger) about my Slog post unveiling the mayor’s draft proposal for new nightclub regulations. McOmber said my post was “riddled with inaccuracies,” adding, “And you wonder why the mayor’s office won’t return your calls.” McOmber told me to call Film and Music Office director James Keblas (who also did not return calls and e-mails for comment for last week’s feature), who he said would set me straight.

Here’s what Keblas said: “The mayor is not anti-nightlife. [His policies to date] have not closed any clubs… This proposal is meant to professionalize the nightlife industry so everyone knows what the conditions are … and centralize the city’s relationship with nightclubs.” So basically, the mayor’s office doesn’t like the way I characterized the mayor’s legislation. Asked if the mayor’s office disputed anything other than my characterization of his position as “anti-nightlife” (my opinion), Keblas pointed to the way I defined “nightclubs”: as establishments with a capacity of 50 or more that provide live entertainment. Actually, Keblas said, nightclubs are drinking establishments with a capacity of 50 or more people that provide live entertainment after 10 pm. I was happy to clarify, but honestly, I think the difference is a pretty minor one. (Most people understand, I think, that a nightclub is a club that operates at night and sells booze.) Keblas also took issue with my use of “leaked documents.” I certainly hope McOmber, a former Times reporter, recognizes the usefulness of leaked documents to reporters’ work.

Again, I asked Keblas to cite the repeated major errors McOmber alluded to in his message. He sent me a long e-mail in response. The e-mail noted two other “errors”: Clubs are only required to patrol parking lots that they own or operate (I said they had to police both lots that they own and lots that they “use,” i.e. operate, which I consider a different way of saying the exact same thing). And Keblas said club employees don’t have to “maintain security” outside clubs before and after closing time, as I wrote; instead, he said, they’re just required to “patrol, i.e., monitor, and call law enforcement if illegal activities are taking place.” Again, this seems like a semantic difference to me. One more substantive thing Keblas did point out is that I said club owners aren’t “allowed” to police adjacent property (like the sidewalk and other areas that aren’t under their legal control). My understanding was that this is true. He asked me to offer evidence. I’m looking into that and will post a correction if I was wrong.

Those minor differences aside, I stand by my post: The mayor’s proposed new regulations (which include requiring clubs to prevent patrons from bringing drugs and weapons on their premises; requiring clubs to keep noise levels inaudible to “a person of normal hearing”; allowing the police chief to summarily suspend nightclub licenses at will; and requiring clubs to police all areas where patrons “or prospective patrons” gather) would harm, not help, nightlife in Seattle. Keblas said in his e-mail that I failed to note that the mayor’s nightlife task force recommended several measures to help nightclubs, including “promoting the development of a vibrant entertainment and late-night entertainment industry within the city” and mediating disputes between clubs and their neighbors. The reason I didn’t note any of the task force’s positive recommendations is that none of those recommendations were incorporated into the mayor’s draft of the law. Yes, the city is adding a new staff person to work with the new nightclub advisory board (which will administer the new nightclub licenses) and clubs. But that staffer wouldn’t be necessary if the mayor hadn’t proposed the new nightclub license and all the attending new restrictions I wrote about extensively yesterday in the first place. Yes, this proposal is just a draft. But from a mayor who claims to support “vibrant” nightlife in Seattle, it’s an alarming place to start.


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Mayor staffers are angry with your Slog post? This is my surprised face.

While I believe you jumped to a few conclusions, ECB, their defensive retorts sound like little more than CYA to me. The goal of this bill appears to be to suburbanize our urban neighborhoods by silencing and micromanaging the nightclub scene. And that's the problem.

I understand wanting to have a career and everything, but Keblas must feel like kind of a sell-out right about now...

Not that he's a bad guy, but he has to apologize for bone-headed policy proposals like this one. Bummer.

Fits, I wouldn't judge James until we have a final ordinance.

Remember all, this is politics, and there are many negotiations going on behind the scenes. Be concerned, but channel that concern into writing to the Mayor not just slashing and burning. Honestly, while I think this proposal sucks, I know there are negotiations left to happen with it. Right now everyone concerned should be writing the Mayor.

Props to ECB for getting a copy of the ordinance and bringing the faults to the attention of the public. Now let's channel the energy created from that to help get a great ordinance.

Keeping a few examples in mind is good idea. Take Linda's. The noise changes would allow for the new condo proposed to go up adjacent to close down that deck. In fact it's pretty hard to imagine how any decks could survive.
Another example. Let's say that the spaces around Chop Suey were condominized. That would effectively shut the place down , because there is no way any sort of soundproofing is gong to meet this sort of law.
If it quacks like a duck, it's a duck, and the propose rules look an awful lot like a toole to give new condo owners leverage to eliminate clubs near them. Quack quack.

The clubs can just move. I don't want my property values impacted by a bunch of drunk idiots. Personally I prefer clubs like the Chapel that would comply with the new law. Who cares about the porch at Linda's? What gives her the right to pollute the neighborhood with noise and cigarrette smoke?


These condos are going to bring a lot of money into this neighborhood and that's good for businesses.

I thought the rules required new buyers to acknowledge that they're moving into a loud nightlife neighborhood. Of course, that won't keep existing residents from trying to shut down nearby clubs.

james keblas is in a tough position. his job with the mayor's office could actually end up being far more punk rock than anything he ever did with VERA, providing he is able to navigate the current stormy nightlife conditions and rally support for fair-minded policy.

time will tell. until then, i don't think a judgement on his effectiveness or actions is fair.

as his friend, i believe he can do it. as someone that earns a living from nightlife activities, i will be one of the first to call him out if things get really fucked up.

keep up the good work on this story, erica. back from vacation and scooping up a storm.

Seattle has a history of writing ‘policy’ that are nothing but semantics. Policies that regulate are, in effect, laws. They are open to interpretation by the police and judicial system, have the effect of a binding law, but in this city at least, create abuse that will follow. guaranteed. Seattle city government has a history of questionable "in-the-moment" interpretable policy/law... (such as the Sidran civility laws). This proposal is ripe for potential abuse, since it creates more "interpretable" abuse situations when police go to any one spot. If they want reporters, citizens, police, judges, et al to stop interpreting policy/law... then they should make the policy/law more black & white, easily understandable to club owners/managers, instead of more grey, from the get-go.

I can just imagine this dialogue:


club: no officer, I monitor the parking lot from this window over the parking lot every five minutes


officer of the law: no you don't, because I never saw you, then...

judge: well, club, the officer is more credible than you in court. I think looking out a window isn't fine, but you got to go outside to “monitor”

club: What the fuck? no one told me before now I had to do that.

Yeah, if the policy stated the club has to patrol/monitor every 30 or 15 mins by doing a parking perimeter search with a flashlight, then that is pretty black & white, easy to understand. cops would need to track the club to see if it is being done. but then again, the seattle police guild does not like anything which diminishes an officer's authority/power, so I won't hold my breath.


Message to some of you: no, citizens should not wait until this policy is made official before crying foul. We act now or else fight for 10+ more years to get it retracted by a higher court.

Kerri, to be a pedant a moment (though I largely agree with your point), there is nothing, NOTHING, 'punk rock' about working for the Mayor. It's just echoing the Five Cent Piece's wishes. And right now, in the balance between protecting citizens' interests and appeasing the big money thugs, the seesaw's tipping towards the big money thugs. Every letter of this legislation is written with the intent to restrict nightlife, only so that the tenants of expensive condos don't get annoyed.

IMO, if the Mayor supports nightlife as much as he claims to, he'd take this piece of legislation, run it through a document shredder, and start all over, this time making sure to balance language that defends and protects the rights of nightlife venues and patrons... with restrictive language towards nightlife that protects neighbor interests. This piece has no balance and that's a big problem. It's all about stomping on nightlife and dictating their protocol.

if keblas is able to use a squaresville job to aid and abet nightlife in this city, i think that is punk rock.

i also think springsteen is punk rock for standing up to the president, i think pearl jam is punk rock for giving so much money to pro choice groups, and the buzzcocks are punk rock for...well, being the buzzcocks.

gomez, i pretty much agree with everything you said in your above post. i think we just have a different definition of "punk rock."

i'm old. throw me an MC5 record and i'll shut up.

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it sure as heck is a duck, no matter what the Mayor's Office says.

I'll ask him about it tomorrow at the awards ceremony for the Space in Fremont artwork that's being built.

If you want a dense city with people actually living downtown, then a few club owners can't be allowed to over rule the hundreds of people who actually LIVE in the neighborhood, make their HOMES there.


Are there loud nightclubs in Manhattan's upper East Side? Does Vancouver BC allow sleazy nightclubs to operate where all the fancy downtown homes are?


Linda's is not that great. When a bunch of new people move into the neighborhood, it would be better to have a nice restaurant on that patio so the new residents have a place to eat. Or better yet why doesn't Linda's just sell their property so more condos can be built?


You can't have it both ways-provide loud nightlife for people who drive in from the suburbs, and then expect people who actually live there to put up with the noise and cigarette smoke of visitors.

It is unrealistic and unfair for people to move into a noisy vibrant urban neighborhood, and after-the-fact demand that clubs stop being noisy and vibrant. Isn't part of the purpose of moving to noisy vibrant urban neighborhoods to enjoy the unique flavor of the neighborhood? If you build a bunch of condos on Broadway, in Belltown, the Pike/Pine corridor, and then force out all the nightclubs, won't you be left with... Bellevue? Who wants to live in Vanilla-land? These gritty old noisy nightclubs are part of the character of the neighborhood. If you don't appreciate that, why buy a condo there?

Being a "good neighbor" is a two sided coin. Sure, the clubs can probably take some steps to mitigate some of the noise and be a bit more neighborly to all the new residents. But the new residents should equally be made to cut the clubs some slack.

The mayor's proposal is utterly one sided and completely unrealistic. He deserves all the ridicule he gets for this.

CONDO and COND OWNER:
Clubs can "just move"? And you can't? What if the club has been a part of the community for many years, and you're the newcomer? What did you expect when you moved in next door? You also can't expect to have it both ways: a vibrant urban lifestyle with everyone tip-toeing down the sidewalk after 10pm so you can get your beauty sleep. Sure, nobody wants to deal with obnoxious drunks, but why do all the concessions have to be made by one side? And somehow I doubt that most of the patrons in those bars (Linda's, for instance, since you mentioned it) are from the suburbs—some of them might actually be your neighbors.

I'd like to add that the anonymous trolls of Slog are very, very creative in their trolling.

Before Giuliani cleaned up Manhattan it was a hole of stripper clubs and sleezy night clubs. Now even in Greenwich Village you can raise a family and expect your condo values to go up.


The sleezy people had to move, crime went down, property values went up. That's progress. Renters are losers who don't care about noise and filth, Condo owners care a lot about their property and neighborhood.


Property owners have a right to a return on their investments. Condo owners expect a raise in value, the mayor and grown-ups know that.


With all the new condos Capital Hill will be a denser more vibrant neighborhood and change for the better. We don't need Linda's any more than we needed Ernie Steel's, or the old QFC building on Broadway. I moved here from Manhattan and I say build, build, build.

Manhattan: property owners do not have a right to a return on an investments. investments are risks. tough shit if property does not appreciate according the owners projections. If an owner can't handle the risk, and the city neighborhood depreciates the equity, then the owner made a bad choice. keep the money in the bank for a set gain if that is the only reason to own a home.


Anyone else want a peice OF THIS? that renters are losers crack is wide open folks.

Manhattan,

You're a moron. Guiliani cleaned up Manhattan so much that it hardly resembles the wonderful city that it used to be. Instead of local businesses we've got Old Navy and Disney Stores. It's like moving into a mall. Gentrification is disgusting. If you want to live in an all-white, upper-middle class/upper-class neighborhood and spawn, move to Long Island or New Jersey. People who move to Manhattan, like any major metropolitan area *should* understand that there are many varied elements - including noise and clubs and, yes, people who are not like them.

Ohhh pluueeze..."only a fool rents in a market where property values are rising at a greater rate than the interest rate on a mortgage, condo owners are literally being paid money to own property and that payment is in direct relation to the price of the property. I sold my first condo, a tiny hole on capitol hill, for twice what I bought it for in less than 5 years and my mortgage payment was equal to what I was paying in rent."

Yes investments are risks, but you try to minimize the risk. The old Capital Hill full of rentals is long gone. Get over it Seattle is moving in a new direction, a better direction.


Condo owners care about their neighborhoods, and expect neighborhood businesses to be run professionally. It makes property values rise and that's good for everyone.


I'll throw in my two cents, even though I know little about it. It wasn't so long ago that there were oodles of restrictions on even being able to serve hard alcohol in this city. Now there are far less and, as a result, there are clubs opening next to clubs and around the corner from more clubs. No wonder the city is rushing toward "density" - who's going to keep all that alcohol revenue flowing. I don't think Nickels is posturing though... he's afraid the city has created a monster, and in a sense it has. I live downtown and see the repurcussions. It's a little sad that so much money is literally poured down the drain in the name of "nightlife". At least I see the music community giving back to community enhancing efforts - most clubowners need to follow suit. That said, I'd also say control sucks... but so do swarms of booze fueled car drivers and mindless weekend warriors.

Condo - why did you move to the neighborhood you moved to if you're so opposed to street level noise and the occasional whiff of smoke? I live in a high density area where I hear noise and smell puffs of smoke periodically drift up to my 5th floor window. I chose to live there - with the knowledge that, yes, there is constant activity at street level. Granted, no one should fear for their lives or have their property damaged. There are other ways to deal with these problems than your "clubs can just move" attitude.

Yes, condo dwellers generate revenue for the businesses on the ground floor. But do you really want your neighborhood to be as sterile as you seem to insinuate? Part of the allure of living in the city is what it offers culturally, and the third places we patronize (clubs, restaurants, bars, etc.) are part and parcel of that culture. There are areas of Seattle that are tamer than the downtown core (Magnolia, Upper Queen Anne, Wallingford) and offer a less hectic environment. Why should the entire city be devoid of the clubs you seem to loathe? Said clubs are, also, "good for business." Let's have these clubs recognize their clientele and deal with any idiots that cause the problems. By the way, with the smoking ban in place that our state voted into law, there are inherently more people on the streets making noise because they cannot smoke indoors.

"Are there loud nightclubs in Manhattan's upper East Side? Does Vancouver BC allow sleazy nightclubs to operate where all the fancy downtown homes are?"

Don't know about NYC, but since I stayed in a hotel on Denman in Vancouver BC for Easter weekend, the answer is Yes. Fancy downtown homes in Vancouver are called apartment buildings.

Condo is a punk-ass bitch, and about as moldy as all of the other condos that are the subject of lawsuits all over town because they were built on the cheap with inadquate City oversight.

Blow me, you wannabe Bellevue-ite!

re: Condo... calm down, guys. Condo's just a troll who knows what buttons to push.

Look at the name before you respond and ask yourself, "Is this guy really trying to have a discussion, or is he just talking shit to try and piss me off?" Don't feed the trolls: trying to discuss a matter with someone who's just responding to piss you off is pointless, because that person's only participating to piss you off for fun.

bingo

Gotcha!

Hey ECB - thanks for the updates to this story!

Manhattan: fuck you and your east coast fuckin attitude. prick. rich people are not better then renters. fuck off.

I don't have much time to post, since I'm heading for the clubs (haha!) But I wanted to respond to Condo's comment about Vancouver, BC since it's apparent he/she has never been there. In Vancouver, BC there are tons of clubs where condos and apartments are. However, they have far less complaints than clubs/venues in Seattle do. These are not cheap places either, these are top of the line, well built, places. So I think there are many questions that can be raised on the condo's side. The important ones being, why would you build a condo with windows that are substandard for the area that tenants live in? Why would you build a condo with walls and floors that are substandard for that matter? Vancouver, BC sure as hell doesn't ;) More later on, I gotta get going.

Thanks for the update Erica.

Nanny Nickles, please find something productive to do and stop regulating our social lives.

Alex:

The answer to your question is quite simple: If you build $500,000 condos with only $300,000 worth of materials, guess who gets to keep the extra profit margin?

It's like those half-mil McMansions they build on the Eastside that start falling apart practically before the family has their boxes unpacked; the mopboarding starts peeling from the walls, the electrical outlets can't even hold a plug, the lighting fixtures start oozing moisture, carpets start fraying etc., etc.

The Developers don't care about quality, and neither do the contractors. They just slap 'em up as cheaply as they can, sell them for as much as they can, and then let the owners figure out how to deal with the results of their shoddy construction - after they've locked in a 30 year mortgage.

*Vibrant* nightlife? I've been here for 9 years now and it's been downhill for vibrancy the whole time (less the TDO revocation). In fact I'm beginning to wonder why anyone with a soul still lives in this dismal excuse for a downtown. The farther away WTO gets, the farther Seattle gets from "world-class". Like Charlie Brown, burdened with a great potential I guess.

To quote the great David Harvey, who is talking about architects but substitute newly transplanted condo dwellers:

"I mean, whaddya want? Mexico City or Madison Wisconsin? I want Mexico City. Most architects I know want Mexico City, Wisconsin. Hansel and Gretl wander down to Las Flores to buy a bouquet for their fondue table... They want the urban experience, but cozy, tidy, green, and without anxiety. I hate to tell you, but the urban experience is anxiety. City dwellers are like Repo-Man -- they seek out anxiety, which is a cue to consciousness. Anxiety IS consciousness, and our only alternative to cozy tribal blur."


Hey Condo and friends,

Not everyone has the money to buy a condo in their teens and 20s. Plus, this group is generally pretty mobile, it may not be right for them to commit to a mortgage that early in life. Maybe renters are "fools" in your eyes, but what do you say to a 20 year-old whose working in a coffee shop, going to school, and maybe even having a second job just to afford the rent and pay off student loans?

This person is not a fool, this is a regular person in their 20s who someday might be a homeowner for for now is renting. Unless you think we should ship people off to camps until they can afford a down payment, then people in their 20s will be part of our society who need housing that doesn't require a $20,000 upfront. It's hard enough putting together first and last month's rent.

I'm in my 30s and it took me two years to get out of debt and save enough money to eek out a tiny down payment on a home with help from my partner. (It seems like a lot of people get help from their parents for down payments. Not in my case. I was also lucky enough to have a partner to help!)

I agree that homeowners literally have more invested in their communities than renters. However, renters do care about their community, pay taxes, vote, and don't lose their humanity because they rent.

Hey folks, be sure to write your comments to the Mayor, City Council and City Attorney. And be sure to vote.

I met with some of the senior staff in the Mayor's office today. They are reviewing the current proposal and changes will be made. That's because it is still in process and this was never meant as a final ordinance. There is no doubt this thing should not have been sent out as is, but it ends up being kind of good it was because it has riled you all up. Now do something with that energy - write the council and mayor and let them know what you think. It will help the advisory board make changes.

One thing I am pushing for is something that ups the standards for sound insulation in all new construction and any contruction upgrades. The Council at least seems to be willing to insert this if it's not done at the executive level. I also want noise to be measured with a Db meter under the same standards as are in the current noise ordinance. If the noise outside a club exceeds these standards, then the club needs to do something to fix the issues. However, if the noise is below the standard, then the building owner the complaint comes from must do something like updgrade the noise insulation in the building, install air conditioning so windows are closed, etc. And lastly, if the noise complaint comes from people who are not club employees, and not from the club itself, then those individuals should be fined. A club cannot be held responsible for the sound of people talking, yelling, whatever, off of their premises. That sort of noise is the noise that happens in a city that is alive 24 hours a day, which is the stated intent of the Mayor. So either the individual people need to be ticketed (as is one in NY) or in the case where the noise complaints are the result of people outside a club, then the resident or owner of the residence must either deal or install more sound insulation. There is no doubt the current proposal is one sided, regulating only businesses and letting developers and owners off the hook with no new regulations. Any ordinance that does not balance this should be oppossed straight out.

One good thing about creating this ordinance is that it will do away with the good neighbor agreements, and will ultimately take some power away from the City Attorney's office. If the ordinance is crafted with exact language instead of the broad language we now have, the rules will be clear and easy to interpret, so everyone involved will have clear standards, and there will be no need for the ridiculous good neighbor agreements. So a lot of power will be taken from the City Attorney (and thus the Police who seem to drive policy over there) and put into the Director who resides in the Mayor's office, which is marginally better, but definitely better as the Mayor can actually lose an election.

An interesting note - from what I understand the attorney in the City Attorney's office working on the Ordinance is Phil Brenneman - the same guy who was involved in writing wretched drafts of the All Ages Dance Ordinance, and who was involved in writing and defending the draconian Added Activities Ordinance. Some of the language in the proposed ordinance is taken from the Added Activities Ordinance, something thrown out by the courts as a prior retraint on free speech. Brenneman is totally anti-nightlife and will keep writing draconian legal language into this ordinance. I am also pushing for him to be taken out of this scenario.

There is a lot left to be negotiated in the ordinance before it goes to Council, and then if it is not up to snuff, we will lobby to outright kill it or make changes to it. Then if it's still not right, we will oppose it in court, while simultaneously working on electing politicians who support our side. Eventually we will win, but only if the people out there who are concerned about preserving the soul of Seattle help us by keeping on the politicians, voting, writing letters and getting involved. We are fighting the Police, City Attorney's office, and developers, the 'Axis of Evil' on this topic, and the fight will not be quick or easy. This is very similar to the Teen Dance Ordinance battle. We won that fight and created an ordinance that has worked well, and as a result we have one of the best all ages music scenes in the country. Likewise, we can have a great nightlife scene in Seattle or it can be regulated out of existence.

We have to fight for Seattle's Soul. If we all get behind Erica and "The Stranger" we can win this battle. The developers will have to do what we say if enough people call them. The Police, City Hall and Developers are our enemies. We can force them to build Condos with soul.

What this debate is really all about is if you are actually entitled to "have your cake and eat it too". Its not about drunks coming in from Bellevue to party or club owners being irresponsible. Its about having it exactly your way.

Condo and all his Condo friends are drawn to neighborhoods like Capitol Hill for a particular reason.
Maybe he works close by or maybe he likes to hang out at Manray and be able to walk home.
He is unwilling to accept the fact that other people want to do the same thing but at a different place with a different vibe or perhaps on a different schedule.

Noise is fine as long as Condo is making it but when he's trying to be quiet its intolerable.

Bill's restaurant might be the best thing because he likes it but Linda's sucks because Linda’s is not where he hangs out.

He like so many others jumped for joy when the smoking ban passed because smoking is not his thing and it annoys him. Now he can hang out at wherever and not be bothered by smoke. However the noise being generated close to his home by smokers on the street is not acceptable and the bars close to his home are the root of all evil because if it.

What Condo and his ilk really want is a giant switch. One they can use to turn the city on when they walk outside into a vast and hopping urban environment, one they can use to shutdown places that they don't frequent so something they like can be put in its place, and one they can use to shut the city off when they return home so the hustle of the city does not bother them.

What Seattle needs is not a Nightclub ordinance. What we need is people that think enough to understand compromise and realize that for every upside there is a downside.

People that recognize the fact that if you live in or next to a commercial zone so you can have the convenience of walking that you may be subjected to noise generated in that commercial zone.

People that recognize the fact that what might have been a quiet antique store today could be a hip-hop club tomorrow.

People that recognize the fact that if you tell your neighbor that he cant smoke in a restaurant anymore that when he goes outside to smoke he will continue to talk and laugh and that now you might be able to hear it.

If you want it to be quiet then move to a spot in the city that is residentially zoned with no commercial zones nearby. Just realize that fact that now you might have to walk several blocks to get your groceries and don’t start whining about the fact that the city is not giving you free cab rides because of the extra distance inconvenience you now suffer.

Folks, if you read the slog regularly you'll see that "Condo" is someone who posts fairly regularly. He (I'm positive it's "he") really likes to stir the pot. I think it's the same guy who used to respond to Charles Mudede's posts blathering about how he should write about Darfur. There's certainly a stylistic similarity, including the fact that he double spaces between paragraphs.

Like Gomez says, he's a troll.

Check out the threads regarding the deputies and the Critical Mass arrests for more of his stuff. (No, not the ones from Someguy; this individual never answers back.)

I'm amazed people jump off the deep end to respond to the guy, and get so upset. Guys, he's just pressing buttons.

You can tell he's a man by his writing style, including the fact that he double spaces. Writing styles betray gender. All women write in a certain style. There's no way a woman could write those posts.

Dale wrote:

"You can tell he's a man by his writing style, including the fact that he double spaces. Writing styles betray gender. All women write in a certain style. There's no way a woman could write those posts."

And if he dots his "I"s with little hearts, he's probably a girl!

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