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Thursday, June 1, 2006

Let the People’s Representatives Decide

Posted by on June 1 at 13:04 PM

As I reported in this week’s paper, the City Council seems increasingly unlikely to put any viaduct replacement options on the November ballot. Instead, the council would choose its own preferred replacement option (likely the mayor’s $4.5 billion tunnel, but with a possible nod toward building the surface/transit option) and elimimate any direct citizen participation in the process.

Unlike the Seattle Times editorial board (which is all for citizen participation except when they’re against it), I think it’s time for the city council to stop paying lip service to direct democracy (the ballot would just be advisory, not directive) and start making some decisions. That is, after all, why we elect them.

Polls show that of the two leading candidates for viaduct replacement (the tunnel and the rebuild), voters like the rebuild—an ugly, boxy structure 25 feet wider than the current viaduct—because it’s cheaper (and drivers like those views.) This is the Nick Licata school of public planning: moneysaving, but hardly visionary.

To put it bluntly: Citizens don’t always vote in their own best interest. Consider the monorail. Or the 2003 state initiative overturning ergonomics requirements. Or any number of tax-slashing Tim Eyman initiatives, which we now blame for our crumbling public infrastructure. In San Francisco, citizens voted to keep the Embarcadero, an elevated highway that was an eyesore on that city’s waterfront. It took an earthquake for the city’s leaders to do the right thing and tear it down.

We’ve already had an earthquake—the Nisqually quake of 2001, which damaged the viaduct and forced city and state leaders to start talking about a post-viaduct future. Five years have passed, and we’re scarcely any closer than we were then to making a decision about how to replace the viaduct—much less taking any action. Another earthquake could shut the viaduct down completely, or worse. It’s time for the council get moving on the viaduct before it’s out of our—and their—hands.


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I could hardly agree more, Erica. The council should not need an advisory vote or even a poll to determine the right course forward here. Given the first opportunity in decades to reunite Seattle's downtown with its waterfront, shame on us if we build an even more massive concrete barrier instead. As you've pointed out, many voters (or in this case, poll respondents) sometimes don't have either the information or the long-term perspective necessary to make a valid judgment on an issue, and when it's an issue of significant import, electeds need to step in and do the right thing.

OH NO SHE DID NOT JUST DISS THE MONORAIL

We elect and pay our City Council to spend the hundreds of hours necessary to make a well informed decision with seeking public involvement.

I strongly commend the Council for growing the balls to make this decision and not pull out some pansy ass voter referendum. Good for them!

We need to just tear the stupid thing down, and be concentrating on a new seawall and replacing the 520 bridge. A big earthquake could have catastrophic effects on both of those vital parts of our infrastructure. All removing the viaduct will do would cause some drivers to be inconvenienced.

Erica, do you have the poll results?

Horseshit. The real motivation behind depriving the public a say on this is that in a two-way race, and elevated replacement would probably win hands down.

Someone's advocacy journalism is showing...

Erica, I completely agree with you, Ryan and Dreamer on this one. It seems like misinformation is running rampant on this issue and the Council and Mayor have the time, resources and responsibility to legislate. WSDOT ultimately has the authority to make this decision but Seattle needs to make a strong and unified case for not rebuilding the elevated structure.

oops, "an".

Choir, let us pray.

Yep - here's a link: http://www.thestranger.com/blog/2006/04/new_wsdot_poll.php. Tunnel 38%, rebuild 58%.

The entire discussion is moot. An advisory ballot would be moot. The City Council's vote is moot.

The Legislature allocated money for a Viaduct rebuild, and *only* a Viaduct rebuild.

Unless somebody, somehow, comes up with a whole lot of money from somewhere for a tunnel, there will *be* no tunnel.

Unless somebody, somehow, comes up with a "surface option" that will not diminish capacity, there will *be* no state money, and there will be nothing.

Unless the retrofit advocates can demonstrate that the retrofit would last as long as a rebuilt Viaduct would, there will *be* no retrofit. I'm pulling for them to demonstrate it successfully, but the burden of proof is on them.

All the "visionaries" who "visualize" a "beautiful waterfront" or "getting people out of their cars" (as if), had better get busy visualizing a whole lot of money into existence, or they will be wasting their time and ours.

If the retrofitters can't prove their plan will work, we're going to have a rebuillt Viaduct, and for my money, the sooner the better.

The voter referendum is a total cop out. I sick to fucking death of having to vote on every damn thing. Should we plant trees, should we tax ourselves so we can build infrastructure, should gay people be allowed to live, should we pay 30 dollar cab tabs. It's fucking bullshit. The Mayor and Council are going to have to fight like hell to keep that money from the State so they need to make a decision and then unify in a pro-Seattle stance.

Ivan, I believe that WSDOT is actually promoting the Tunnel as the 'preferred' alternative and that the 'core' tunnel project can be built for the available and expected funds.

I agree, the reason why they won't let us vote is all their public and internal polls show that two-thirds of the voters (likely and total) support the elevated Viaduct rebuild and they can't get traction for their insane underwater tunnel that will cost Seattle taxpayers (the state/county/port only cover the Viaduct rebuild) TEN TIMES the cost of having BUILT the Green Line Monorail.

Which part of HECK NO! don't they get?

I predict a lot of unemployed city council members really soon. But first I have to cash in my lunch with David Della, the only one brave enough to speak out against the underwater tunnel.

oh, and Erica, don't diss the monorail.

downtown and some well-heeled opponents just managed to twist it with the help of the mayor and council - people still want MORE transit, not endless unmet promises.

Seen any local bus service in Seattle? Didn't think so - it's all for the suburbs. And yet we pay the lion's share of taxes, with 33 percent of the tax base of King County. But get 20 percent transit funding. Go figure.

Gonna be a tax revolt soon against the suburbs.

Oh great, so we will have buffoons like Peter Steinbrueck and Nick Licata making these decisions.

Oh well, I guess you are all right that it’s better to have elected officials who can wade through the pounds of information and analysis on this. I certainly do not know what to believe anymore.

I really wanted the tunnel and went to bunch of meetings where we drew pretty pictures and were allowed to dream about what the waterfront COULD be with the tunnel in place.

But if that stupid no highway idea is gaining steam I'd rather have a big ugly rebuild than that whacked out boulevard idea. I think those 'no highway' fanatics are nuts and are screwing this whole thing up for Seattle which will likely end up in us losing the gas tax funds and having to do some lame retrofit.

Seattle has seldom, if ever, met a problem or issue it couldn't further discuss.

Will - I see plenty of local bus service in Seattle. Check your numbers. Seattle gets 63% of Metro service for your 33% of the tax base. Believe me, you don't want service to be allocated on a revenue generation-base formula - Seattle would lose half of its service.

Could we discuss the Monorail a little more?

What was it about? And what happened?

Discuss.

“To put it bluntly: Citizens don’t always vote in their own best interest.”

OK...then so we’re supposed to trust the representatives the citizens voted in to make the decision?!?!

The underlying argument here is that an election is not supportable because elections fail to produce results that are 100% in the interests of the citizens.

This is precisely the argument would-be dictators use to justify their coups d’etats.

Erica Barnett, graduate of the Vladmir Lenin School of Public Policy?

I think the main reason that citizens don't vote in their best interest is because of the media.

Take the whole stupid car tab thing. The message there was $30 tab, and nothing else because of the huge amounts of money for advertising and simple-minded television coverage. I remember distinctly some dumb old bitch being interviewed on KING-5, who kept harping on seeing empty buses.
WTF?

The same thing is true of the idea of a state income tax. Ron Sims just mentions it, and everyone blows a gasket. The biggest critics are the people who would actually benefit from an income tax, but are too stupid to realize it. They get played by the rich folk who, who would "suffer" from a state income tax, but know how to push the buttons of the stupid people.

Oh yeah, they hate mass transit. That's why Link Light Rail's being tunneled and built, with stations already in place, as we speak- oh wait.

For the last time: the Green Line monorail died because for the money, time and resources required, it did not serve enough citizens. It would've served West Seattle, the fringes of Queen Anne, Interbay, and Ballard (before that stop was lopped off, and it still didn't dent the asking price) to and from Downtown. Nobody else. For $4 to 6 billion at best, possibly more due to unforeseen circumstances. THAT'S why it died.

The city doesn't hate transit. It just hates expensive projects that serves too few people.

Link got the green light not because of some city council conspiracy, but because it actually would serve a wide variety of neighborhoods from SeaTac to Downtown upon launch, and more neighborhoods as it's expanded. Quit with the Link Was Ron Sims' Baby and The Green Line Was The City's Bastard Child argument. It's bullshit and misses the point.

The tunnel is a BAD, expensive idea, but at least it would continue to serve the 100,000 motorists a day who'd use it.


Oh, yes!
More monorail talk!
More details!
Give us the Walter Cronkite comparison!
Please, let's never stop living in the Monorail.

Will in Seattle - Nick Licata, while welcoming Della's position joining him, has been against the tunnel before David Della was on the Council. He was the sole "no vote" on the tunnel as a preferred alternative in 2004. See here:

http://clerk.ci.seattle.wa.us/~scripts/nph-brs.exe?s1=&s2=&s3=&s4=viaduct&Sect4=AND&l=20&Sect1=IMAGE&Sect2=THESON&Sect3=PLURON&Sect5=RESN1&Sect6=HITOFF&d=RESN&p=1&u=%2F%7Epublic%2Fresn1.htm&r=2&f=G


In 2002 he voted "no," see here:

http://clerk.ci.seattle.wa.us/~scripts/nph-brs.exe?s1=&s2=&s3=&s4=viaduct&Sect4=AND&l=20&Sect1=IMAGE&Sect2=THESON&Sect3=PLURON&Sect5=RESN1&Sect6=HITOFF&d=RESN&p=1&u=%2F%7Epublic%2Fresn1.htm&r=11&f=G

Will in Seattle wrote: "I agree, the reason why they won't let us vote is all their public and internal polls show that two-thirds of the voters (likely and total) support the elevated Viaduct rebuild and they can't get traction for their insane underwater tunnel that will cost Seattle taxpayers (the state/county/port only cover the Viaduct rebuild) TEN TIMES the cost of having BUILT the Green Line Monorail."

Will, I agree with your cynical interpretation of why the council is considering pulling the vote.

What I don't agree with is your description of the tunnel as being "underwater." This is a cut-and-cover tunnel just below the surface. If that land there is not truly land, then how the heck is it holding up the current viaduct? I also wish the mayor et al would more vigorously point out that the fact, because this is a cut-and-cover tunnel and not a truly deep burrowing, the risk for cost overruns is much lower. Ten times the cost of building the monorail? Well, that would be true for another "Big Dig," but this is not another "Big Dig." And by the way, I'm saying that as about as die-hard a monorail supporter as there is.

More Will in Seattle: "I predict a lot of unemployed city council members really soon. But first I have to cash in my lunch with David Della, the only one brave enough to speak out against the underwater tunnel."

Um, wait a moment. If David Della is the one councilmember who will remain employed thanks to his stand, how is he the brave one? Sounds like anything but.

Hey, in this place of decision/indecision by plebiscite, I'm actually proud that we have some councilmembers who aren't quaking in their boots at the threat of unemployment. I'm thrilled at the prospect of some elected leaders finally having the cajones to actually be leaders and not followers, and make the decision they know is right rather than the one they know is popular.

History records some cases of elected officials getting booted from office for taking unpopular stands that history later proved were the right stands. The Democrats lost the South thanks to the 1964 civil rights legislation, and they have never won it back.

I think Erica's post is right on (did I say that?). Time for the city council to show some leadership, and it's also the last opportunity to rebuke the legislature's mandate (do you really want Seattle's waterfront to be dictated by your state rep from Wenatchee?).

And for what it's worth, nice job on the misinformation, Will.


Maybe someone can explain how the Council (or the electorate, as well) could meaningfully decide in favor of the Tunnel since currently we don't have the money for it.

When the City Council puts a bond issue on the ballot asking the people of Seattle to tax themselves to pay for the extra cost of the Tunnel, then we can take their leadership seriously. Otherwise any "decision" in favor of the Tunnel (by Council or voters) is an empty gesture.

a smaller cut-and-cover tunnel should be selected: the four-lane bypass tunnel with dynamic tolling and ramps to Elliott and Western avenues added. its smaller scale would probably make it affordable with the funds in hand. it would have all the urban form benefits of the full six-lane tunnel, while not increasing the limited access highway capacity counter to our supposed concern over global warming. the replacement viaduct is too big and ugly.

One advantage to the tunnel, as I understand it is that they can replace the seawall at the same time.

I know things like seawalls aren't sexy, but it is vitally important, and is in desparate need of replacement - it's much more imporant than the stupid road, in whatever form it ultimately takes.

Again, my little mantra: Seawall and 520 replacement. Seawall and 520 replacement. all the rest is just gravy.

"I know things like seawalls aren't sexy, but it is vitally important, and is in desparate need of replacement..."

And what is your source of information? The same people who want to sell us a tunnel. And the same people who let the seawall (supposedly) deteriorate wityhout any warning. Have you actually read any of the engineering studies? I have. And the news is not nearly as dire as some are hoping.

I have not seen the engineering studies - only the coverage in the Times at the time, and the WSDOT pages on it.

But it does stand to reason that a 1930's - era seawall, which has been damaged in an earthquake and suffering from rot due to invasive species, should be replaced prior to replacing the infrastructure that sits on it. At least to my untrained manner of thinking.

Or, perhaps, I just don't have my tinhat on securely enough.

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