Slog - Comments on Coming Down/Going Up http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2 Future installments of this column will delight in the conflicts that accompany major construction projects in Seattle, but our first stop, First Hill, is an exception to that rule. Here at least, developers are welcomed -- or at least those who have the good sense to consult with neighbors before they call in the backhoe. Says Michael Gray of First Hill Home Improvement Association, "We want a mix of housing. We have very high-end housing and we have low-end, but we don't have much in between.” Until now — or very, very soon. First Hill's got the boomingest condo market... Copyright 2007 Fri, 02 Jun 2006 12:40:50 -0800 Sun, 09 Jul 2006 10:23:06 -0800 http://www.movabletype.org/?v=3.34 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Comment by seattle98104 cool. but "First Hill Skygarden.jpg" is just text ....

firefox tells me the image contains errors ... but IE will load it ... nope never mind.

fix it yo, this sounds fascinating.

]]> seattle98104 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c260140 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c260140 Boom Fri, 02 Jun 2006 13:00:25 -0800 Comment by Amy Kate Fixed!

]]> Amy Kate http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c260159 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c260159 Boom Fri, 02 Jun 2006 13:04:03 -0800 Comment by JW I'm curious how much a condo aimed at professionals w/ a $50,000 annual income actually costs. Are these professionals expected to spend half their income on the mortgage payment? Are they expected to have a $70K down payment lying around that they didn't happen to spend on the educations that professionalized them in the first place?

I'm not writing out of any kind of resentment here - I am an owner myself. However, I was barely able to buy something near downtown Seattle eight years ago, feel lucky I did, and wonder how anyone can now.

So I'm curious - do people earning about $50K regard the developer's stated goals as pure horseshit? Who's the real target buyer? A childless couple earning a combined $120K?

]]> JW http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c260207 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c260207 Boom Fri, 02 Jun 2006 13:10:57 -0800 Comment by Density All development is good, let developers build as high as they want to. If we wanted to read people whining about developers, we can read the washed up hippies in Seattle Weakly.

]]> Density http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c260290 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c260290 Boom Fri, 02 Jun 2006 13:24:55 -0800 Comment by High-Rise Bravo Tom. I'll anxiously await round two...

]]> High-Rise http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c260310 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c260310 Boom Fri, 02 Jun 2006 13:27:45 -0800 Comment by unconscious procedure Nice job...

just wondering, though - is this the "future" of Seattle architecture that Mudede thinks we should all feel so thrilled about? If so, especially considering that artists' renderings always look better, then it should be back to the drawing board for these money grubbing hacks....

]]> unconscious procedure http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c260411 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c260411 Boom Fri, 02 Jun 2006 13:54:35 -0800 Comment by Bran I love this feature. Thanks for adding it!!

]]> Bran http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c260427 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c260427 Boom Fri, 02 Jun 2006 13:59:19 -0800 Comment by Mr. X That's a real nuanced understanding of complicated land use matters you're displaying there, density.

Not.

]]> Mr. X http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c260443 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c260443 Boom Fri, 02 Jun 2006 14:02:52 -0800 Comment by Matt Can anyone say "Dot-Condo"?

I'm not convinced, this looks like speculative investment at the peak of the bubble... $50,000/yr., barely, if these young-urban-go-getters are willing to bet their financial life on crazy ARM/interest-only/neg-amortization loans... rates are going up, and pretty soon no one will be able to afford these...

I'm betting half of these don't get built when prices start tumbling...

Miami, Vegas, San Diego and D.C. are already facing the Dot-condo bust, Seattle's just late to the party

]]> Matt http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c261477 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c261477 Boom Fri, 02 Jun 2006 16:49:20 -0800 Comment by High-Rise I disagree, Matt. Seattle has what the cities you mentioned do not: regional job growth in excess of 50,000 annually (we're not talking McJobs either), contrained supply (physically as in water/mountains and legislatively via the GMA, stringent regulation, etc.), and surging demand. The market will continue with appreciation rates of at least 10% for at least the next few years... Bet on it.

]]> High-Rise http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c261885 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c261885 Boom Fri, 02 Jun 2006 17:31:27 -0800 Comment by JJ My partner and I made a combined $60K when we bought our condo two years ago—it was a stretch, but we were able to afford a place that was $180,000, plus dues of $250 a month. So we were laying out about $1350 each month. We put next to nothing down—$5K total, including closing costs.

But interest rates have ticked up since then—so I'm guessing $50K a year would buy you a place that's about $160 or 170K? I'm guessing that'll be a tiny studio in a new development (ours is a tiny 600sf one bedroom in an old building.)

]]> JJ http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c261965 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c261965 Boom Fri, 02 Jun 2006 17:40:30 -0800 Comment by Matt Sorry, High-Rise, but the 'limited-land' arguement fails when you look at the Japanese-Tokyo Real Estate collapse of the early-nineties, worse still is that our growth has been spurred by cheap-money via Greenspanonomics... surging demand=cheap money (but not for much longer... 30yr. at 6.67% today)

But you're right, they're not McJobs, the largest growth in new jobs to the area is construction... hmmm, 2 and 2 says that the surge is due to the condo-boom construction, sustainable? not really...

10% for the next few years? Sounds like you've been talking to a local Realtor, who really are no better than used car dealers in this town...

]]> Matt http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c262097 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c262097 Boom Fri, 02 Jun 2006 18:01:35 -0800 Comment by Christopher I used to live in First Hill, and the biggest problem with living there (or at least, living in the south part of First Hill) was that there was no grocery store. The closest one to me was Uwajimaya, which was not too much closer than the QFC at Broadway and Pike.

Something to note about the first project listed here is that it used to be the site of a grocery store. It was torn down to build condos years ago (before I lived there), but the project was stalled after they had already turned it into a big construction pit. This was at the start of the most recent recession, and they had supposedly decided to wait until the condo market came back. It was a constant complaint at the local neighborhood meetings that we didn't have any local grocery store (keep in mind hardly anyone in this neighborhood has a car). Obviously the developers now believe the condo market has come back.

Speaking as someone who no longer lives there (and who recently lost his apartment to a condo conversion), I think this will be good for the neighborhood. The only things going for it before were the very low rents and proximity to downtown. Hopefully when there are more people living there, there will be more retail that isn't just oriented towards the hospital workers.

BTW I doubt they're serious when they say they're targetting people making 50k... I make a little less than that and there are basically no new developments aimed someone like me. I can still find places affordable to me, but it's all in old buildings.

]]> Christopher http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c262534 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c262534 Boom Fri, 02 Jun 2006 19:05:56 -0800 Comment by Justin It's not that hard to make 50k a year in this town. I moved here from Milwaukee and expected a much denser downtown. It's good to see them tearing down a lot of the old crap to infill with condos. When they run out the renters (who are usually poor) and get more condo owners in there, a Whole Foods can set up shop. Look at Portland's Pearl district and the beautiful Whole Foods they have. Can't wait till Seattle is like that.

]]> Justin http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c262874 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c262874 Boom Fri, 02 Jun 2006 19:35:20 -0800 Comment by L.A. I am an owner on Capitol Hill and have noticed the recent "building boom". I wish there was something we could do to prevent classic, quality brick buildings from being knocked down for new, cheaply built and thrown together "urban living centers". I like the general idea of those places, but do not understand the logic of continuing to tear down and destroy parts of the small history this city has. Save the classic buildings! Save the Seattle style! Soon, we are going to be living in a manufactured urban hell hole if we don't preserve what is left of classic architecture in our town.

]]> L.A. http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c263167 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c263167 Boom Fri, 02 Jun 2006 20:19:49 -0800 Comment by Cry Baby Architects Cry baby Architects who won't tear down the old crap that's clogging up Seattle are the ones holding our city back. Density means better restaurants, better nightlife, and higher pay. Brick buildings are dangerous in earthquakes, tear them down.

]]> Cry Baby Architects http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c263644 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c263644 Boom Fri, 02 Jun 2006 21:34:04 -0800 Comment by S. V. A. If this continues unabated you will have a soulless city like Dallas or Houston that is dull and unremarkable. Please don't let that happen. Seattle has been a great place to hang out and have fun. Fight the developer's with all you have or before you know it, that culture will be replaced by glass and steel.

]]> S. V. A. http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c264481 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c264481 Boom Sat, 03 Jun 2006 00:20:22 -0800 Comment by cite Love this new feature, keep up the good work!
People tend to be alarmist in Seattle -- the chances of this city becoming another Houston are nil. Choose your preservation battles wisely. Just because a building is older doesn't mean it is worth saving. But I'd still say I'd be very happy to see all these damn parking lots in Seattle built up before older buildings are torn down. Why does this city have so many parking lots?!

]]> cite http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c265085 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c265085 Boom Sat, 03 Jun 2006 02:40:43 -0800 Comment by dano Sure all this fancy crap will go to rich people but what the fuck, then the slightly less fancy crapola will be availabe to everybody else. So who gives a shit build build build...If we finally get enough houseing in this burg thats the only thing that will bring prices down.Mostly this stuff looks pretty sharp actually.

]]> dano http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c268652 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c268652 Boom Sat, 03 Jun 2006 17:14:51 -0800 Comment by dano Sure all this fancy crap will go to rich people but what the fuck, then the slightly less fancy crapola will be availabe to everybody else. So who gives a shit build build build...If we finally get enough houseing in this burg thats the only thing that will bring prices down.Mostly this stuff looks pretty sharp actually.

]]> dano http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c268653 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c268653 Boom Sat, 03 Jun 2006 17:15:07 -0800 Comment by dano Sure all this fancy crap will go to rich people but what the fuck, then the slightly less fancy crapola will be availabe to everybody else. So who gives a shit build build build...If we finally get enough houseing in this burg thats the only thing that will bring prices down.Mostly this stuff looks pretty sharp actually.

]]> dano http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c268654 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c268654 Boom Sat, 03 Jun 2006 17:15:10 -0800 Comment by dano Sure all this fancy crap will go to rich people but what the fuck, then the slightly less fancy crapola will be availabe to everybody else. So who gives a shit build build build...If we finally get enough houseing in this burg thats the only thing that will bring prices down.Mostly this stuff looks pretty sharp actually.

]]> dano http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c268655 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c268655 Boom Sat, 03 Jun 2006 17:15:11 -0800 Comment by Brian All the buildings proposed look like condos that now exist in the model city for this type of development "Vancouver Canada". Recently a conference was held in Vancouver so that representatives from other major cities all over the world could attend so that they could see how Vancouver had "turned itself around" and reinvented itself by building condos catering to high income earners. The problem discovered is that building mainly for high income people leaves you with a lifeless city but having low income and middle income housing mixed with expensive new development gives viability to neighborhoods. This key point is usually lost on high income home owners that usually want a "hip" environment that caters to there lifestyle only. Recently a typical slogan for a Vancouver development was "Be Bold or move to the suburbs". Hardly a welcoming slogan but that is the attitude of developers and planners wanting to make quick cash redeveloping an area for socalled "hip" buyers. First Hill seems well on it's way to becoming a "hip" neighborhood with like minded "hip" tenants not wanting anything but "hip" stores and coffee shops. Once this ball is rolling a city plagued by fast highrise condo development geared to high income earners becomes lifeless and boring. I know because even though I enjoy some of the new development in Vancouver Canada everything was build based upon how great a rendering looks but no attention was payed to the soul of the city at street level. The writing is on the wall for Seattle, most of the cool things I always loved about Seattle that let me have a great break form Vancouver are disappearing fast it is becoming like and other city with no style of it's own. All the sub cultures that the city had are being eroded and replaced by instant "hip" developments. With no sub culture you have no real development and sustainability of existing culture that gives a city it's flavor and style. Something you can not buy at a hip store or cafe.

]]> Brian http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c273379 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c273379 Boom Sun, 04 Jun 2006 08:35:01 -0800 Comment by Slip Mahoney Trader Joe's is in negotiations for the grocery space.

]]> Slip Mahoney http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c278027 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c278027 Boom Sun, 04 Jun 2006 22:44:10 -0800 Comment by Taryn Wow. I have to say I don't make 50K a year and I work for a corporation that is going to be closing it's NW Call Centers down. My rent is going up and I have lived on the Hill for a couple of years. The good news is now we are going to finally have a grocery store close by, that would kick ass! However where are "the young urban career folks" supposed to go. I live alone and am single, and barely making 40K a year. Now I am feelin a lil depressed....I make too much for low income housing, but not enough, clearly, for these condos. I sure as hell don't want to live in the suburbs..oi vey.

]]> Taryn http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c283815 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c283815 Boom Mon, 05 Jun 2006 15:25:08 -0800 Comment by Hero Hi ! Your site is very interesting. Thank you.

]]> Hero http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c401004 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/06/coming_downgoing_up_2#c401004 Boom Sun, 09 Jul 2006 10:23:06 -0800