Man, that's too bad. I used to really like going there.

Good, he should have been fired. I'll be sure to eat there this week.

too bad, I used to eat there quite a lot.

What patronizing cant.
So the owner is Latino.
That means he can't think for himself. Maybe the owner is aginst open borders. Or has his own perspective on immigration. So? That makes him a bad man?

Btw, how many of you even know what this rally is all about? I certainly have no idea; its purpose so far as I can tell is to be for good things and against bad things.

Jesus, aren't people allowed to form their own opinions? Erica, are you so racist that you think everybody needs to fall in with their race? I see you're at work there.

A mexican against immigration rights is an idiot. Can we all agree to boycot this restaurant for what the owner did?

The owner needs to learn to stand with his race on this issue, and the community can make sure he learns his lesson.

Give them hell vatos'
An economy analyzer on CNN says that the impact if every single immigrant participated in this marchout would be 1.8 billion dollars lost in revenue if Pancho doesn't take the goods to the grocer.
and for all the pee holes B#$%chn about it wheres your counter protest.?. hahahaha.All we'll see is some dumb hick with his 4 goofy ass brothers burnin a mexican flag.ooooh scary.big deal on your point made nationalistic knuckleheads.
Give them hell vatos' theres a lot of us who know how much you mean a lot the country.

well, wonder what the story is at the University Varsity Inn (at 34th and Wallingford, just north of Gas Works Park), cause they were closed too.

Essential Breads (about two blocks west) had no fresh baked goods as well.

ECB's point is not to say that because of his race the owner can't think for himself...rather any business owner that uses immigrant labor is just dumb if s/he doesn't understand that their interests as a business owner are shared wtih the interests of those individuals that hope to keep being able to work in this country. It's doubly dumb given that the guy is Latino.

Raw Data, when you say maybe he has "his own perspective on immigration" do you understand that if he has illegal immigrants working for him then his "perspective" is just hypocricy?

Victor Santiago is a backstabber in more ways than one; the anti-immigrant Latino is also a gay Republican.

Perhaps he could have a march of his own, chanting "This is what hypocrisy looks like!"

Victor, you are a traitor and disgrace to our community. It's time for your businesses, Cafe Septieme and La Cocina y Cantina, face a boycott.

Well, maybe he got here through legal channels and wants others to do the same, instead of just having citizenship handed to them? just a theory.

I'm ready to make this anti-immigrant Latino, gay Republican pay for what he did.

Let's make him hurt with a boycot and show him that Capitol Hill will not allow slimy little conservative mexicans like him run a business in our neighborhood!

I am going to eat there twice this week in support of this decision.

Someguy seems like some some pig. Where's Charlotte to save you now, asshole? Go ahead, go there, eat two meals a week, and Le Supersize yourself. Don't expect a crowd at the memorial, Mr. Rigby.

Anyway - it seems like Mr. Santiago has rolled out the red carpet for a boycott. Let's post to our blogs, make some flyers and break out the sidewalk chalk!

I'm feeling hungry... Bleu Bistro sounds good. And, ya know what, so does El Greco.

"A mexican against immigration rights is an idiot." - that's completely ridiculous. The issue is not about "immigration rights" nor about being Mexican - it's about illegal immigration rights.

What makes me ashamed is the uninformed group think over this issue in general (re: immigration, not this particular instance).

From my understanding, Victor is fairly involved in the operation of Septieme; it should have been his decision, not Vance's: that alone is a fair ground for termination, regardless of the politics.

And don't be surprised tonight if your order of onion soup today is an entire, unpeeled onion in a bowl of bullion broth. Sorry, gavacho.

This is mainly a Mexican immigrant issue. In light of our longstanding (um, post-eminent domain) citizen-to-citizen friendship between Mexicans and Americans, and to support our nation's ideal of immigration, work ethic, human rights, equal rights, heck, even to NAFTA, we should be standing with the immigrants and should WELCOME THEM fully into the system.

Flip side: integral to the economy, but no rights? Sounds like...

I wonder what the immigrant marcher in Seattle today chalks his or her work absence up to. Sick day? Personal day? Vacation day? A paid day off, no doubt, hunh?

TYRVEN wrote:

"What makes me ashamed is the uninformed group think over this issue in general (re: immigration, not this particular instance)."

Ya know what makes me ashamed? That you can't write a coherent sentence.

Were you trying to say you're ashamed that people ponder this issue? Or, worse, that you know what the uninformed think?

I'm white, and I would gladly pick apples or clean hotel rooms for a living wage.

If anything, you would think the owner would be more sensitive to the plight of his employees. Why does he hire illegal immigrants in the first place? Cheap labor?

Hey, Mr. Awesome. What's your idea of a living wage, and what do you live on?

Do you think that is what apple pickers get paid? No, you say? Well then, I'll see you on 2nd Ave. in an hour.

"Our nation's ideal of immigration, work ethic, human rights, equal rights"

I think the key word here is "ideal". There is little historical precedent for any of this in America. We've consistently brought in immigrants when we needed them - and then tried to push them out when their services were no longer required.

"Why does he hire illegal immigrants in the first place?"

Are we certain they are illegal? Are we to the point that we assume Mexican = Illegal?

Pot, meet Kettle: "Were you trying to say you're ashamed that people ponder this issue? Or, worse, that you know what the uninformed think?"

What I'm saying is that I have yet to hear a rational argument for this issue. Most of the people I've talked to think pro-illegal = pro-Mexican and thus anti-illegal = anti-Mexican. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Politically, I happen to favor these immigrants (and the "essential workers" acts that preceded the current legislation). That doesn't mean I agree with the logic behind the mass protests. I think the issue is being spun as a racial matter instead of a political one.

P.S., I've spell checked this comment so you can focus on my logic instead of my grammar.

Dude "spellchecked" is one word. YOUR WHOLE POINT IS VOID.

No, good point, Mexican does not equal illegal. In fact, many illegals are legal for 20 years now due to Reagan's signing of an amnesty in the 80's.

The precedent of Liberia is not tantalizing if anyone might think that "Mexberia" might a good answer to tuck somewhere down there in the non-native Southwest.

True, about using and eschewing illegals as needed. Quick read here on Mexico's experience with the US in that regard.

http://www.pbs.org/mattersofrace/essays/essay1_latino_usa.html

I'm a backstabbing hypocrite who is about to have my businesses stripped to their bones. My employees and former regular customers hate me, and now I'm inviting everyone to boycott both of my businesses, which are:

Cafe Septieme
214 Broadway E.

La Cocina y Cantina
432 Broadway E. Seattle

Pot, meet Kettle: No, and as long as illegal immigrants are willing to come here and work for pennies, it will never pay a living wage. The more illegal immigrants, the less employers will be forced to pay employees. You won't see me on second avenue, and you're a fool for going yourself.

Lloyd: That's an interesting article, thanks for the link.

Mr. Awesome: I think you missed Pot's point. Nonetheless I agree with your point that illegal immigration is counter to the interests and accomplishments of labor law reform.

As an aside, however: from my understanding (and experience) day labor pays more than minimum wage; I saw a recent report confirming this (but unfortunately can't find the reference); it suggested that the average wage of day laborers was around $10-$12/hour (which is true of Casa de Latina, a day labor program in Seattle). What they don't get is labor protection or rights (health care, legal representation or coverage under safety laws).

ECB says she's going to interview Victor Santiago. Why don't we wait until he has his say before we all rush to judgment calling for a boycott?

While we're at it, I'm not going to just believe he's a gay republican just because someone posted it on this blog. How about some proof?

Matt from Denver: Wait. What you're asking is for us to make an informed decision. That's just silly. You must understand that it's a proud pillar of our culture that we jump to conclusions and cast judgement based on one-sided perspectives and even unfounded rumors. Anything else would be, well, un-American.

Taco Keeses Taco Keeses
If any mexican restaurants are closed good. they all should recognize the latinos are fightn the power.
If you want a chimichanga go to safeway and make it yourself tonight, non cookin knuckleheads. Taco Keeses, get your Taco Keeses here.

OH NOES! A business owner stuck to his previously defined policy of "don't show up to work, lose your job", and fired a manager who chose to close down a business that was not his to close down! Let's all freak out and boycott the owner's restaurants, even though we have no idea how he feels about immigration at all! Let's just lose our fucking minds and raise a hue and cry before we have any actual facts at all in regards to the legal status of the workers who chose not to show up to work today even though they were previously informed of the "don't show up, get fired" policy!

Goddamn, people. Try using your heads, okay? You know, those things you have shoved up your asses?

I wonder how many of you would be totally losing your shit right now if the workers were predominantly white, not Hispanic.

If I'm a racist for believing that people of color should stand in solidarity together on behalf of their common interests, then so were MLK, and Malcolm X, and Stokely, and Cesar Chavez...

And LH's point is right on. If he employs a single undocumented immigrant at either of his restaurants, it's in Santiago's best (business) interest that they not be treated as criminals and deported; and that they be allowed to get on the path to citizenship.

Hey Tryven - Re: "A mexican against immigration rights is an idiot." No one said that. What was said that a mexican 1)BUSINESS ONWER 2)EMPLOYING UNDOCUMENTED WORKERS not supporting his workers' protest against laws that will CRIMINALIZE them (immigration law is mostly civil) is an idiot. He's operating against his own economic self interst, and yes, he's NOT acting in solidarity with those who could use the support of men with standing like him.

"Hey Tryven - Re: 'A mexican against immigration rights is an idiot.' No one said that."

That was a quote from "John" posted on this thread at 02:57 PM.

If, in fact, his employees are illegal (and not simply Mexican or immigrants, many of who sympathize with this issue) then I fully agree that he's being hypocritical and, more baffling, counter to his long-term self-interest (although his short-term self interest is admittedly to keep his restaraunt open).

ECB: "...and that they be allowed to get on the path to citizenship."

Actually, that's only in his best interest if citizenship doesn't include any number of labor laws and employee taxes.

I do agree, though, that it's not in his best interest (assuming he employees illegals) for laws to be put in place that would deport the people who work for him.

I'll be interested in hearing Santiago's side of this, for sure.

ECB: "If I'm a racist for believing that people of color should stand in solidarity together on behalf of their common interests, then so were MLK, and Malcolm X, and Stokely, and Cesar Chavez..."

You forgot to include Adolf Hitler in that list.

And before one of the many reactive people on this thread jump to any conclusions I'm not comparing MLK to Hitler; I'm simply observing that "people of color should stand in solidarity together on behalf of their common interests" can be applied to many causes, some of which are not considered very positive.

Very pleasant Tryven that we can get to a point of agreement. I am still in need of some convincing on the argument of ethnicity solidarity. I guess, I also believe that if his citizenship in this country is a result of pure "pull yourself up by your bootstraps," no use of power or influence in becoming a citizen (maybe he's born here, I don't know) AND he has no undocumented workers in his employ THEN he's politically consistent.

A good percentage of the residents of this coutry "without up to date papers" ("illegal") came into this country legally. Take a look at the naturalization backlog. They don't process scads of people (who came into this country with legal papers) according to their own timelines and people lapse and become "illegal."

Do people understand what could happen if the laws proposed people were protesting today? If passed, these laws would make a civil violation a criminal violation. In that world, people in the streets today could be swept away and put in camps. We've done it before. It's easier than EVER today.

Huh? Okay, so you are not comparing MLK to Hitler, but you're definitely suggesting a like comparison to those that hope that the members of a family of immigrants (most of us) support treatment of immigrants commensurate to their contribution. These people are like Hitler? How?

Okay, you observed that spurious connection, tyrven. That doesn't make it any less despicable and just plain dumb. Any fool can see the differences between the people that ECB listed and fucking HITLER. Common interests in the sense of equal rights for a minority is a weeee bit different than common interests in the sense of exterminating everyone else on the planet.

Jesus.

A) The post doesn't say anything about employing illegal immigrants. It simply said that the Latino employees wanted to attend the rally.

B) When an employee does something they are told not to do, that is insubordination, a firing offense.

C) Mr Awesome - there is a labor shortage anticipated in the Yakima valley for workers in the fruit industry. Are you going to follow up on your offer?

Tyrven has a point: the bill that sparked all this addresses ILLEGAL immigration, and yet those who favor illegal immigration have tried lumping the illegal immigration issue in with the immigration issue in general, and have fooled many people into thinking the bill is designed to condemn ALL immigration. In reality, should a nation not have regulations as to who can come into and live in the country? Illegal immigrants have spent decades undermining the immigration process, and now they're marching for the right to eliminate standards for entry and residence in this country entirely.

My father and his family emigrated legally from the Phillipines many years ago, back when the process had a rougher edge and was more involved. I can only imagine what he thinks about illegals lumping themselves in with perfectly legal immigrants, misinforming the legals into taking their side, so that they can demand to have their cake and eat it too, and get gullible liberals on their side in the process.

Oh, and I couldn't care less about Septieme (overrated, overpriced), but I have eaten at La Cocina. I'd go back. We've all eaten at restaurants where far more unethical things have happened and do happen on a regular basis.

At least he answered the phone and willingly spoke with ECB, LIKE A MAN. None of this duck and run shit that most people do after doing something objectionable.

Let's make that slimy little mexican republican pay for what he's done. If we all stick together, we can RUIN his business.

People of color stand united, and nothing can defeat us.

Gomez - YES this is the heart of the issue.

Remember though -the demands are not about a simple "let us be."

The rallies are opposing a particular thing - they are opposing a law that would turn their presence in this country into a criminal offense (immigration law violations are generally civil offenses) - and while doing so they are ALSO recognizing the need of a nation of laws to enforce them - hence their call for "Comprehensive Immigration Reform."

This is a call to oppose piecemeal approaches that do things like deputize local law enforcement - while compromising the local law enforcement mission. Ask any police chief in the nation, they do NOT want this unfunded mandate. There are MANY legislative proposals that would authorize this. Seriously folks, these people, their families, and their advocates are worried about USA internment camps like we used for Japanese-Americans.

This doesn't mean guest-worker programs are the answer. They'll be suscpetible to being turned into govt.-sanctioned sweat shops. Corporate power fights regulation - even when it's the deal going in.

Borders exist for purposes that serve interests of competition over capital. This must be recognized in any discussion about reform.

Eff that! I have been a LOYAL patron of the Cafe Septieme for seven years (and by loyal, I mean I could pay the f*cking utility bill, with how much I spend there). Vance Wolfe was integral to the atmosphere at Cafe (and I don't mean in a purely decorative sense). He has worked very hard at maintaining the class and integrity of the cafe (reminiscent of the Kurt days). I am spreading the word of the atrocity that Santiago has committed- not just against his workers or his people, but OUR COMMUNITY. I can't believe this; I am saddened and disgusted by his decision to let Vance go.

Actually, couldn't they apply for a work visa? Or visit the country? There are legal circumstances under which a non-citizen can come into this country. Illegals don't wnat to bother trying: they want to sneak in the back door, and for it to be totally legal.

The problem with this whole debate is that it's being framed too widely. Immigrants are all getting dragged and lumped into what's primarily an illegal immigration issue. Most of us are perfectly okay with immigration... as long as you do it legally.

this is one crazy motherfucking thread. full of unsubstantiated rumor about the owner of septieme and the legal status of his employees (btw, why would you advocate for undocumented workers by outing their workplace online?). full of ugly invective on both sides about race. which would be weird enough. but what's even stranger in all this debate about racism is that mexican is a nationality and not a race.

Hah, yeah OK - the Hitler comparison was pretty extreme; I apologize. My point, though, was that there isn't anything inherently positive (or negative for that matter) about "racial solidarity". The rhetoric reminded me of rationalizations I've heard from white supremacists. As I said in the comment, though, it's clear that MLK is nothing like Hitler and regardless the discussion has little to do with this thread - my bad.

Come on; wait to hear both sides before taking any action! But if both sides agree that Wolfe was fired for taking initiative to support those who wanted to participate in today's protest, then in my mind Santiago’s deed was excessively harsh and frankly dense, and Septieme will no longer have my meager patronage.

LH: "Huh? Okay, so you are not comparing MLK to Hitler, but you're definitely suggesting a like comparison to those that hope that the members of a family of immigrants (most of us) support treatment of immigrants commensurate to their contribution. These people are like Hitler? How?"

No - I didn't say that at all. I was simply pointing out an illogical statement. Did you even read what I wrote?

Anthony: "Common interests in the sense of equal rights for a minority is a weeee bit different than common interests in the sense of exterminating everyone else on the planet." - You're right; I was being nit picky about wording. That's my point, though: the factor is equal rights and not racial solidarity.

This is a silly tangent, though.

Gomez: Most people I know who are legal immigrants are very upset by the current protests for exactly the same reasons you're suggesting. They see it as a slap in the face that after jumping through the hoops necessary to get legal immigration people who broke the law are demanding the same rights as them.

LH: I think that's the most articulate and rational explanation I've heard re: the protests. I think those are very valid concerns. Regardless of my political opinions (which I've kept separate of this thread) I think that is something people on either side of this issue need to be thinking about. From what I've seen, the legislation that originally sparked this was a terribly impractical proposal - and a huge step back from the more realistic "Essential Workers Act" that was on the table last year.

if the remaining workers there want a union they should call 1-877-815-5684. Until then I will not spend another dime there. Too bad, what a great place.

"Actually, couldn't they apply for a work visa? Or visit the country? There are legal circumstances under which a non-citizen can come into this country. Illegals don't wnat to bother trying: they want to sneak in the back door, and for it to be totally legal."

Whoever wrote this comment has obviously never had to try and get a work visa or tourist visa as a citizen of a Latin American country. This comment just goes to show the naivete of many U.S. citizens about the privilege that U.S. citizenship and the U.S. dollar provides in this world. In many countries in Latin America (see most in Central America and Ecuador, I'm not sure about Mexico), a person must go to the embassy, pay $100, then wait for an interview (often takes months). After the interview (during which they must show anywhere from 1,000 to 10,000 dollars in a bank account of an immediate family member) they can be denied a simple tourist or student visa, thus having to go through the whole process over again. This isn't even mentioning work visas because they are not given for service-sector work.

Please do educate yourself before posting such comments. Undocumented immigrants in this country are here precisely because it is the only way to come and work here, not because they are trying to "sneak through the back door." Next time you think about going south for vacation without so much as a visit to an embassy or money for a visa, remember that most people who want to travel, even if only for vacation, do not have it so easy as those from the U.S.

My father applied for and received legal residence, as has the rest of his family, years and years ago. He said it's doable and just takes time and willingness to put forth the effort. I think he knows what he's talking about, and take offense when someone who's never done the process themselves tells me that I don't know what I'm tlaking about, or how to think about it.

Also, he came to this country an unskilled laborer, as did his entire family, so don't jump to any conclusions about him having special privileges or circumstances either.