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Friday, May 12, 2006

Re: What’s Great About USA Today’s NSA Story is…

Posted by on May 12 at 10:35 AM

It’s not the exact same story at all, Josh. What’s really great about USA Today’s NSA story is that it goes further than the New York Times’ original story, uncovering a vast database of purely domestic calls — as the Times itself notes in its story today:

The New York Times first reported in December that the president had authorized the N.S.A. to conduct eavesdropping without warrants.

The Times also reported in December that the agency had gained the cooperation of American telecommunications companies to get access to records of vast amounts of domestic and international phone calls and e-mail messages.

The agency analyzes communications patterns, the report said, and looks for evidence of terrorist activity at home and abroad.

The USA Today article on Thursday went further, saying that the N.S.A. had created an enormous database of all calls made by customers of the three phone companies in an effort to compile a log of “every call ever made” within this country. The report said one large phone company, Qwest, had refused to cooperate with the N.S.A. because it was uneasy about the legal implications of handing over customer information to the government without warrants.

After the original Times article, the debate was mainly about whether the NSA should be intercepting calls in which one person was on foreign soil, because that’s what the Bush administration said the NSA was watching — international calls from and to Al Qaeda operatives. This is a very different debate, because it’s now clear the administration wasn’t telling the truth in its “foreign calls only” pushback on the original Times article. The new USA Today story shows that the administration is also compiling huge amounts of information on purely domestic calls.

This distinction is what a lot of editorialists are picking up on today. For example, the Washington Post’s Eugene Robinson:

At least now we know that the Bush administration’s name for spying on Americans without first seeking court approval — the “terrorist surveillance program” — isn’t an exercise in Orwellian doublespeak after all. It’s just a bald-faced lie

You’ll recall that when it was revealed last year that the NSA was eavesdropping on phone calls and reading e-mails without first going to court for a warrant, the president said his “terrorist surveillance program” targeted international communications in which at least one party was overseas, and then only when at least one party was suspected of some terrorist involvement. Thus no one but terrorists had anything to worry about.

Not remotely true, it turns out, unless tens of millions of Americans are members of al-Qaeda sleeper cells — evildoers who cleverly disguise their relentless plotting as sales calls, gossip sessions and votes for Elliott on “American Idol.”


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Agreed, it is a different debate. That needs to be flushed out fully. That is why it is unhelpful, Eli, when you post the Wash Post poll without any analysis regarding the type of questions the poll asked, or the general question of whether it is legitimate to run a poll on a complicated issue the night after it was on the front page of a national paper. The role of journalist is to explain and reveal news, not cement ignorant public opinion, which is what you are doing by blindly linking to the Wash Post poll.
Dan Froomkin does a good analysis in his Poll Watch section: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/linkset/2005/04/11/LI2005041100879.html

iquiring minds want to know, "who is hong tran?"

stranger, please answer.

The original NYT story included domestic calls and the cooperation of the telecoms and data mining patterns...

It was easy to infer from that NYT story the next logical step: the data mining would be used to compile a data base. But the reaction to that story was nil. Meanwhile, the Bush pushback wasn't to that NYT story, it was to the NYT's FISA story.

I agree that the USA Today story goes further, but my point is that there's something about a USA Today story on Bush's creepy habits that stings more than an NYT story.

The NYT's FISA story was huge. It went away. The NYT's Telecom story was huge. It went away.
I don't think the USA Today story is going away.

So wasn't the real original story about John Poindexter and Total Information Awareness (with the Illuminati logo, natch)? And didn't Congress tell the Bushies to stop the program? Of course, they didn't, apparently, tell them to stop doing it in every conceivable way possible, so Alberto Gonzalez et al. think they've found a legal loophole for the whole ridiculous data mining scheme.

Which, incidentally, I think is highly unlikely to yield anything remotely useful for detecting terrorists. How is the activity of terrorists plotting over the phone supposed to look any different, at the level of phone calls made and received, then, say, people planning a surprise birthday party? Either they need more info, like actual message content, or they just compile scads of data that eventually gets used for other, even less savory purposes (or, more likely, both).

Seeing Sanders & Feit having their orgasms in pup(l)ic: ick.

Try checking this: Qwest mines & sells your sacrosanct data to the highest bidder. Sort of like Safeway tracking (via little red cards) your purchase patterns, Qwest regards your calling history as an extractible & exploitable resource. They draw the line, though, at giving it up for the connecting of dots to terror attacks. Maybe if the NSA had offered to pay ....

More from below: Waiting for you knee-jerk jerks to ponder & answer the implied question (from yesterday): How is NSA's collating of phone-bill data a greater threat to America than Echelon? In fact, how is/was either a threat to America, aside from giving otherwise unemployable whiners at The Stranger more exercise in the weird alchemy of turning trees into shit, & electrons into smut?

More on the 60 Minutes Echelon report: Google Steve Croft (womb raider), Echelon, February 2000. Note the date.

Also note the words of geostrategist Dan Savage: We're at war, ya dopes.

Pup(l)ic: Make that "pub(l)ic."

About Poindexter & TIA: Asserting that data mining is a ridiculous scheme does not prove that it's a ridiculous scheme. If Clinton & Quincy Bush had extended high-tech Echelon into low-tech mining (a few otherwise useless bureaucrats in a darkened room with a few Trash-80s), calling patterns of eleven 9/11 planejackers would have connected them to known cells.

And since, to repeat, corporate America including Qwest effectively mines customer data for fun & profit, why would Poindester's mining have been ridiculous? Why is it ridiculous now, aside from our cover being blown in public & in print?


The NSA story in USA Today may not be going away because it's the third such story and yes, it's in a more mainstream paper. Three time's a charm.

Data mining, as conceived by Poindexter/TIA and, yes, the Echelon program, is ridiculous because it yields too many false positives. Yes, the 9/11 hijackers called known terrorists numbers. Yes, I don't doubt that terrorists use the word 'bomb' in their phone conversations. But the trouble is that with the huge amount of data collected, the number of false positives swamps the true positives, and you're left either investigating tens of thousands (or worse) dead ends per hit, or, as is much more likely, you blow off the true positives because you've given up after all the false ones. Which is pretty much what the FBI does with NSA 'leads' from data mining programs like Echelon.

What data mining on the level Poindexter was proposing is good for is for exactly what you claim Qwest uses it for: broad consumer trends, such as figuring out who orders pizza 5 or more times a week. Which was exactly my other point: this data is desirable for other uses which most citizens would find unacceptable. Should the government be tracking our phone calls so that the information can be sold to marketing firms? That's the most likely scenario for what will happen to this data.

Hey Eli Sanders,


Any dumbass knows all the major corporations are working with National Security.


Why don't you get off ass and march over to Microsoft and ask them about their work with the military? Some of your former collegues even work there.


But that would be real reporting, not regurgitating NPR stories. And finding out that Microsoft was even more evil than the phone companies would pop your little bubble of denial.

...man, you Rethug dickheads are sure doing backflips to rationalize these gross (and completely ineffective) invasions of privacy.

Go fuck your brownshirted selves, assholes...

Oh, and I bet Orgasmi-tronic has probably never had an actual orgasm with another human being present. Stoking off to Abu Gharib photos in a frat boy circle jerk with Rush and his buddies doesn't count...

There's no rationalizing these envasions of privacy. Eli Sanders is scratching the surface, and if he'd spend a little time snooping around Microsoft, he'd find much, much worse.


Sanders is distracting us by regurgitating NPR stories to stimulate his orgasms in pup(l)ic.


Geostrategist Dan Savage popped a boner at the thought of starting this war.


Once you get a nice war going part of the fun is watching the unexpected side effects on the government back home.


So again reporter Sanders, why not march over to Microsoft and ask them how the war has helped their profits? Ask Microsoft how it is helping the government to spy on it's own citizens?

The philosophy behind this program is so stupid. I mean, do people really think that terrorists don't operate based on the assumption that every move they make (every call, every email, etc.) can potentially expose them? What's next, trolling Friendster or MySpace to figure out if people have links to "suspected terrorists"? ("Name: Osama Bin Laden", "Interests: Spelunking, Bringing the Great Satan to its Knees", "Music: I heart the Dixie Chicks", etc...)

the funny thing is, if you have a name anything like a name on the notorious Don't Fly List, like oh, one of the candidates for the 43rd house seat does (Richard Kelley), then any time you phone or email said person you will be presumed to be contacting a terrorist link.

yup.

so, given how badly set up that list is, you're pretty much guaranteed to be considered a "terrorist" no matter how many years you served in counter-terrorism ops to keep the cowards like Bush and Cheney safe.

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