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Thursday, May 4, 2006

Re: Re: Sims’s Bus Plan

Posted by on May 4 at 10:44 AM

If people don’t like riding the bus “because it gets stuck in traffic,” as Josh claims below, then why are they so crazy about driving their cars?


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Because in their cars they control the radio, the A/C and the ability to change directions on the fly.

Did you not see "Singles"?

you really have to be joking. For many people, commuting it is their only chance to be by themselves.

People don't have to wait 15-20 minutes for their car.

Also, because the bus tends to pull over every two to three blocks (thus considerably slowing down the commute already), it then has to merge back into traffic, and no matter what the little sign on the back of the bus says, cars do not yield to buses.

Also, people are lazy and misanthropic.

Living in west seattle, I can only use public transportation to go to and from downtown. Anywhere else, I haven't got much choice but to drive otherwise risk an unacceptably long commute with long wait times from the connections I've missed.

My car isn't full of freaks and stinky people like buses are.

My car takes me pretty much anywhere in the city I want to go in pretty smart time as long as I stay away from the bridges or I-5. I can beat any bus by a factor of three at least. Crosstown sucks, but the bus sucks worse. And my car can readily visit the places where I need to be, none of which are particularly close to a bus route, and nowhere near a bus route that goes between them. No transfers in a car.

Erica, I'm 100% with you on this, but this is a stupid question. As part of the problem, I drive my car because it's parked in my carport, I don't have to walk anywhere and wait to get into it. I don't have to say hi to anybody, I don't need to have exactly $1.25 in my pocket, and I can listen to whatever I want to on the radio. When I smoked, I could also smoke in my car. I didn't feel stranded when I got to work. Some of these problems will be addressed by Sims' plan, some won't. For so many reasons, I would rather be stuck in traffic in my car than stuck in traffic on a bus.

you guys are right. riding the bus totally sucks. from now on, all us bus riders should just drive everywhere we go.

these comments in many regards back up erica's point. you all whined about the inconvenience of not being able to exactly what you want, easily. guess what? the solution to the traffic problem or the pollution problem is not going to be doing exactly what you want, easily.

and don't start with the whole, i pay/my money/i wanna thing. if saying "hi" and having a $1.25 is too much to ask of you, then you deserve to die in traffic waiting for the ambulance that can't through because of all the important individuals who just can't stand to say "hi".

taking the bus just isn't a tragedy and frankly, neither is waiting in traffic. melting glaciers? now that's something i can start to get sympathetic toward.

Very funny Mr. Sharkansky stop pretending to be a stranger reporter and get back to ignoring global warming.

Alithea, you're right. Us car drivers should not identify the real benefits of driving, and should be so racked with guilt that we don't surface any issue that might impede car drivers from switching to bus.

I love the irony of Seattle driver's complaining about gridlock and then backing it up by saying they won't ride the bus or bike.

I'll keep riding and laughing at you all while you sit, stuck in traffic with a mode of transportation that needs not $1.25 to get around but over $3 a gallon.

Somebody out there want to crunch those numbers?

I drive for work. I drive most when you drive least, thus avoiding much of the rush hours of frustration. Then, from home, especially on nights out, a bus ride downtown is a great apertif to a cab home later on. City livin' is great like that.

Tens of thousands of people don't mind the bus at all. And to think that the bus driver allows all us passengers the kind of head space that you never have while driving is lovely.

People don't take buses because it takes longer than taking the car. I commute from Wedgwood to Renton. If the bus didn't take twice as long, I'd be happy to take it almost every day because I could read.

When I commuted from Wallingford to the U District, or Wallingford to downtown, I loved the bus. It was faster than the car.

I doubt it really matters what the particular reason is -- long waits at the stop, stuck in traffic, frequent stops. If it takes much longer to get to work by bus than it does by car, people will take the car.

I don't see much mention of the benefits of being stuck in a bus over being stuck in a car in traffic. My bus ride to work in the morning is a nice, mellow, wake-up time for me. I don't have to worry about operating a motor vehicle, so I am able to just relax and wake up. I get to people-watch too, a nice past time. On the way home, traffic is a bit worse, but I more often than not take the opportunity to read. Yes, you all remember reading, don't you? It's when you pick up a book on a topic that interests you and you go exploring for awhile. It's really quite a lovely way to end a long day at work. The bus ride home is, for me, a time to unwind and relax after work. By the time I get home, I'm in pretty good spirits and ready for whatever the evening may bring!

I ride Seattle's last and true Ghetto line ( the 42) The 7 stopped being the Ghetto line, ever since Columbia City became Freemont. Yes, is not a true Ghetto line, like the Green Line( train) in LA, but its the closest thing Seattle has to a ghetto line.

And yes, the Ghetto line can get a wee rowdy, specially at night, and near my stop on MLK and Orcas- or what use to be my stop and is now a Sound Transit construction hole.

But buses continue to be a necessary and key part of any city's public transit solutions. More buses hopefully would mean more buses for the Ghetto line and shorter waits for me in front of the AM PM and would reduce my temptation to eat a corn dog or buy some chronic from the friendly weed dealers behind the AM PM.

Currently the wait for the Ghetto line is about half an hour and when its raining its just not cool. When its nice I either jog downtown ( via Beacon Hill) or I bike, I try to avoid my car, and though I hate the waits for the Ghetto line, I really dont see a need for a car unless Im going outside of Seattle.

This post/thread illustrates why I took issue with the notion that "It's the traffic," yesterday. If you try to address that, a million other "negatives" surface: personal space, time management, that precise $1.25/$1.50 you have to dig up because they don't make change.

The choice of using transit vs. driving a car is based on a constellation of emotional values: whatever it is I prefer, it's because that's rewarding to me emotionally, and I feel like it makes the best sense.

People who drive cars because they don't/can't see a net benefit to using transit, shrug or grow irate when they hear about spending $10B on more buses (that will get in their way). The people who do ride buses rub their hands in expectation.

The problem with buses and traffic is not just that the bus is slower, it's that the waits become unpredictable (and tend to be longer, because buses bunch up in traffic). The unpredictability increases both the time you wait and the time you need to leave if you want to arrive at some time. And it increases the layovers Metro needs to plan into their routes, which in turn decreases service.

If The Stranger wants better buses, you guys should advocate for a simple change in Seattle Department of Transportation policy: In any corridor where more people travel by bus than by car and there are two or more lanes per direction, the city will make one of the lanes a bus lane, at least during peak hours. This shouldn't be too offensive to the public, since it means more people move faster, it would make buses faster and more predictable and it would slow cars down (which makes buses more relatively appealing).

Obvious corridors include Pine/Pike to Capitol Hill, the Eastlake/UBridge area, and the Aurora bridge. There are probably others.

I'm sure the Eastside is increasing bus service to whatever extent that is. But, really, when I'm driving over there, all I see is new road construction to accommodate more cars. You drive to this strip for sushi, you drive to that strip to buy books, and so on. The buses over there don't service that type of activity, so it's all about cars except for your point-to-point bus trip.

Of course Seattle is going to emphasize buses because of the density of activities that you can bus or bus/walk to downtown and in the neighborhoods. Makes sense.

You may complain about frequency of bus service, but I'll contrast the Seattle bus experience as quite good compared to the time I took the bus from Bremerton to Belfair. If only I had owned a car then.

I would be more than happy to use the bus more often from my neck of the woods provided that metro creates more bus lines that go to parts of the city other than downtown or white center.

And how about some buses that run at 2am in the morning in places like belltown and capitol hill that go to the outlying neighborhoods for people that like to go to clubs?

Michael wrote: "People who drive cars because they don't/can't see a net benefit to using transit, shrug or grow irate when they hear about spending $10B on more buses (that will get in their way). The people who do ride buses rub their hands in expectation."

Michael, I think you're the only one rubbing your hands in expectation -- perhaps in expectation of getting your hands on some of that $10 billion. I ride the bus and, with no monorail coming and no light rail to Northgate until -- what? 2015? 2018? -- there's nothing on the transit front in Seattle that's got me rubbing my hands in expectation.

Well, I take that back... Sometimes on the bus I rub my hands in anticipation of the bus starting during the two or three minutes it takes to get one wheelchair-bound person on board. Thank goodness I don't think like a consumer.

because they think they're in control, but actually they're in stress.

it's why long airplane flights make people uncomfortable.

and the reason they use SUVs is they "think" they are safer and "bigger" than the other traffic - even though they're less safe.

easy way to make a point is have everyone pay for gas with bus tickets and pay for parking with bus tickets and pay for repairs with bus tickets.

after a while they'll get it.

but they have to use bus tickets. if it's dollars, it doesn't work.

Because the bus takes longer due to all the stops. Mass transit is supposed to save you time from the traffic, not to mention money. Point in fact, the buses don't save a lot of commuters any money at all, and add to this that they're slower, less predictable, and may involve a long walk, makes them awfully unattractive.

I'd be happy to take the bus (actually, I'd be much happier to take a really useful, thoughtfully and broadly developed light/commuter rail), but as it would cost me more and take longer, I'll stick with the grueling, tiring drive.

Classic Seattle Islandism. Quite a lot (I dare say the majority) of rush hour traffic on the highways is not from people going from Seattle to Seattle. It's from people living in affordable communities commuting to affordable jobs in the city or in Eastgate or thereabouts.

This is reason #91623905 why the Monorail plan blew: even at its final phase, it only went from Seattle to Seattle. Not even so much as a line down I-90 to Factoria or to the frickin' airport. (Sorry Seattle, light rail is coming, and it ain't you that's making it happen.)

A two-zone transfer is not $1.25. (It's actually $1.50 for one-zone during commute time.) It's $2.00, which even at $3/gal makes driving actually cheaper (assuming you drive a sensible car instead of a stupid one).

and the reason they use SUVs is they "think" they are safer and "bigger" than the other traffic - even though they're less safe.


Sorry, will, but didn't you get the memo? Simple physics - F=ma. The bigger (heavier) the vehicle is the safer you are in a collision. The only thing SUVs don't have going for them is the roll-over. Provided you are a competent driver and know the limits of your vehicle you're not going to roll over. You want to talk about safe cars? 1970s Cadillac. No rollover, heavier than just about anything out there. Do you just hate SUVs, or do you hate all large cars?

If I had children of driving age I would put them in biggest four door sedan that Detroit ever produced.

Here it is: a fine collection of the REAL, petty excuses people have for refusing to use public transit. Whine whine whine. All of you are whiners and all of you directly contribute to our high gas prices and our impending fuel crisis.

Fuck all of you.

My Bus to and from Alki Beach is filled with well scrubed, nicely scented, quiet people heading to and from there jobs downtown. I love it.

I sit and space out (sometimes w/ my Ipod sometimes with silence) looking out at the ocean every morning and evening. It's very relaxing. It drops a few blocks from my work and home in both trips.

While waiting for the bus in the morning I stand under the awnings at the Alki Bakery, staring out at the Sound, drinking coffee and listening the music that Starbucks next door is piping out onto the sidewalk.

Sure, I would drive more if; 1) I had free parking, 2) I did not have to deal with traffic, and 3) I was uneducated about the consequences and impacts of everybody driving. Unfortunately none of those three things are reality so its on the bus - which luckily for me is a very pleasant experience.

Remember always that big trains & little boys is a testosterone thing. You wouldn't understand.

Buses? Probably a good plan, but demand a recount since it's done with EnRon Sims Creative Accounting. This, is believe, is the Sims who made the EnRon county computer 'system' & the EnRon county election 'system' what they are: marvels of this modern world.

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