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Wednesday, May 3, 2006

Re: I’m Not Actually Obsessed w/ the Monorail Anymore, but…

Posted by on May 3 at 13:55 PM

Josh says Sims’s bus plan would pay for “frequent bus service between downtown and West Seattle and Aurora/Ballard,” exactly the same route as “the monorail line.” Then he trashes it for costing $10 billion over 50 years - almost as much as the monorail’s $11-$14 billion prediction.

But wait a minute. If you look at Sims’s bus plan, it doesn’t just fund a single bus line between Ballard and West Seattle. In fact, it would pay for bus runs between downtown Seattle and West Seattle, Ballard and Aurora Avenue every 10 minutes, plus equally frequent trips from Bellevue to Redmond and along Pacific Highway South. Sims’s bus plan would also fund more trips to Eastside suburbs such as Sammamish, Kent and Covington; route expansions in the neighborhoods surrounding Sea-Tac; trips every 15 minutes between business districts on the Eastside; feeder buses from Beacon Hill and the Rainier Valley to Sound Transit’s light-rail stations; more east-west trips among Queen Anne, South Lake Union and Capitol Hill; more Access buses for the disabled; and electronic message boards at the busiest bus stops, to announce when buses are arriving.

That’s a lot more service than one line between Ballard and West Seattle.

As for the 21 million rides being “the same as the monorail’s prediction,” that’s just not true: All 21 million of the rides Metro is predicting are new rides; the monorail’s 21 million included the monorail’s entire ridership, including people who used to ride buses. The monorail’s own estimates predicted that just 18 percent of its total riders would be new transit users, or about 3.78 million rides a year.

Finally, Metro’s $10 billion estimate includes both capital costs and operations and maintenance costs. The cost comparison only works if you assume the monorail would have paid for 100% of its operations from farebox revenues - something no transit system in the country has ever done (and something even monorail officials were saying was unlikely when the monorail imploded.)

I agree that spending money on buses doesn’t promote density like fixed-rail transit does. Duh - bus routes can be moved, which eliminates any real incentive to put new developments along bus lines. And buses get stuck in traffic. But let’s be realistic: The choice right now isn’t between fixed rail and buses. It’s between improving bus service and doing nothing.

And, as a bus rider, I also know that the real problem isn’t that buses get stuck in traffic (except downtown and during rush hour between Seattle and the Eastside); it’s that there simply aren’t enough buses to serve every neighborhood reliably. Unless you’re riding between Capitol Hill and downtown, buses typically arrive every 20 to 30 minutes - less frequently in outlying neighborhoods like Crown Hill and during off-peak hours. Of course people don’t ride the bus when it means waiting 45 minutes in the cold and rain: It’s much less convenient than driving a car. That’s why we need more bus service, not less.


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You told him.

=)

Erica - thanks for the honest analysis. You're hangover must bring the best out in you. Josh, by claiming he is no longer obsessed with the monorail, sounds like the dumped boyfriend who is 'no longer' obsessed with his crush, and then spouts a bunch of jibberish. Just think where we'd be if instead of obsessing on monorail for the last several years we had Sims' plan already in place and work. Maybe we could even have bus lanes like Portland.

Jeesh. The monorail financing plan was a joke. Tat was obvious from the beginning but ignored by those of you who drank the SMP coolaide. Sane people everywhere admit it now. Jeesh Josh, get over it already. It's not like it's the smoking band or something horrible like that. :)

That's where its at.

You go girl! :-)

What Erica said. And very well said at that. Good work!

E.C.B.--Why do you hate The Stranger?

but they're buses. that's the unfortunate part. just more vehicles to clog up traffic. buses are NOT a solution to transit woes.

they're only a solution if you stink, are crazy, homeless, or a teenager who likes to have loud conversations with a captive public.

buses do more to stop moving traffic then anything else in this city, traffic lights included.

i am both a driver of a car and a frequent rider of metro buses and i have to say, the a warm fuzzy that starts to grow in my heart everytime i think of how enviromentally healthy i am by riding the bus, is often squelched by the fact that i couldn've gotten where i was going twice as fast if i'd had my damn car!

what we needed was monorail. something that did not run in the streets with other traffic. ron sims is a dork to think more buses is going to make commutes easier or faster.

but we already kinda knew he was a dork....

Very good, ECB, almost as good as last week's 501(c)3 cover story. I'll be in touch - JP

ALERT ALERT ALERT

And all this for a house hold estimate cost which wil be $25.00 per YEAR. If you but a lot of stuff- I buy cheap and used. For me, I bet it is $10.00 per year. Minimalist. Conservationsist. Entranced by the Goodwill Experience..

For approx 2.00 a month, who will vote against it?

You would have to be an utter fool.

We must insist on another electric trolly line or two and all energy state of the art buses....
Sims is brilliant on this one.... perfect timeing, among the angst ridden post mono you know what blues.

Thanks, Erica. Facts are after all facts.

If fuels keeps on going up, bus riders will multiply as well. BETTER schedules will help loads.

Among my circle of ten friends and co workers I own the only car. And I use it rarely. They all LOVE this proposal.

I have to say that I am completely in Josh and Dan's camp about the advantages of monorail and (if done right) light rail over buses. For me, an apt analogy is the advantage of spending 10 years and tens of thousands of dollars getting an M.D. over starting your career straight out of high school. On average, you'll make a lot more money in the long run as a doctor than you will with only a high school diploma.

Take Erica's statement: "And, as a bus rider, I also know that the real problem isn’t that buses get stuck in traffic (except downtown and during rush hour between Seattle and the Eastside); it’s that there simply aren’t enough buses to serve every neighborhood reliably."

If Sims' plan passes, I'm sure we'll get to witness firsthand the limitations of starting with traditional bus service and just making it more frequent. By the way, Erica should take a bus ride to Fremont or Wallingford or Greenwood or Green Lake some time to witness that, yes, buses do get horribly stuck in traffic in the neighborhoods.

Even so, as much as I agree with Josh and Dan, I can't imagine voting no on Sims' plan. I'll be holding my nose while pencilling in the yes oval, but I can't imagine, in good conscience, voting against more transit. And just taking a broader view, I tend to believe that this bus expansion may indirectly improve the odds of more mass transit, i.e. light rail/monorail, getting built. So here's a question for Josh and Dan: how will you vote on Sims' plan come November?

Conveniently, Sims doesn't mention that--thanks to him, Nickels, and the Seattle City Council--15-20% of the Metro bus service added (or restored) to Seattle will be diverted to subsidize the annual operation of Paul Allen's $50 million vanity streetcar between South Lake Union and Westlake Center.

Nice analysis Erica!

Josh sucks!

hey Cressona - I lived in Ballard for two years, and get around (including TO THE NEIGHBORHOODS) exclusively by bike and bus. Getting stuck in traffic is rarely EVER an issue.

HMA: hey, that damn teenager was yammering away on *my* bus yesterday.

Look, I'm for rail travel, mono-, duo-, what-have-you. But no one has invented a full transit system that doesn't use buses (at least that I know of). Buses get to where people live.

Secondly, there is an important relationship between traffic and buses. More buses, more often, will increase ridership, and increased ridership reduces traffic. (I know, we've never had the chance to observe that in Seattle.)

But more importantly, transit needs to reach a tipping point of ridership "votes" before key bus-only lanes can implemented that can make a bus faster than a car, especially during rush hour. More buses, more often, all over, is a big step in that direction.

Thanks ECB! And thanks to Josh for the strawman set-up.

Seconded, Cressona. I go from the U District to Downtown and back every single workday, and my bus rarely gets caught in a slowdown going either way. They get the right of way on Express Lanes, Carpool Lanes and Bus-Only Lanes.

ECB wrote: "hey Cressona - I lived in Ballard for two years, and get around (including TO THE NEIGHBORHOODS) exclusively by bike and bus. Getting stuck in traffic is rarely EVER an issue."

Gomez wrote: "Seconded, Cressona. I go from the U District to Downtown and back every single workday, and my bus rarely gets caught in a slowdown going either way. They get the right of way on Express Lanes, Carpool Lanes and Bus-Only Lanes."

Well, since buses so efficiently serve Ballard (all we need is just a little greater frequency), I guess we never really needed the Green Line. And since buses so efficiently serve the U District (all we need is just a little greater frequency), I guess we don't really need that $1.5 billion light rail extension.

Not that I have to explain this to Erica of all people, but real mass transit is never just about getting people from Point A to Point B. It's just as much, in fact more, about transforming Point A and Point B.

Even if riders found buses just as attractive as trains (okay, bear with me here), a bus route could be discontinued or cut back at a moment's notice. No developer ever built around bus routes the way they have built around subway and light rail stations. Why? A developer has to make a commitment, and a bus route in itself is not infrastructure; it does not afford a guarantee. Bus routes are ultimately just lines imagined on streets and streets are ultimately made for cars.

All I know is that whenever there's a damn Sonics game, or there's insane traffic on Denny for whatever reason, it takes me 45 minutes to get home by bus. I live 2 miles away from my job. On days like that, it's faster to walk.

Much as I love flogging a dead horse as much as the next guy, I don't see the point in comparing Sims' plan to the Monorail. The Monorail, sadly, is no longer an option, at least not in the forseeable future. We can whinge on about how the Monorail would've made more sense financially, morally, aesthetically, etc, but this bus proposal is about moving forward with transportation issues. Crying over the Monorail now isn't going to get anyone out of their cars or improve gridlock.

One thing I'd love to see when the downtown tunnel is completed would be for the restricted access on 3rd Avenue during rush hours be maintained. Although I was skeptical before the tunnel closed, the traffic flow on third has accommodated the additional bus traffic quite well during those times.

Transforming? So you want sections of entire neighborhoods to get ripped up and replaced with gentrification, expensive condos and higher-end chain stores, at the expense of smaller businesses and affordable apartments?

Why do you want neighborhood transformation? You don't like the neighborhoods as they are?

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