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Wednesday, April 5, 2006

Timely Scare Tactics

Posted by on April 5 at 16:30 PM

Watch for a front-page scare story in tomorrow’s Seattle Times warning parents that their kids aren’t safe at All-Ages shows.

The Seattle Times’s evidence: Only 1 promoter in town, Mark Johnson, has an active AADO license. The Seattle Times will then ask, given that there are up to 30 all-ages rock shows a week (but only one city-approved all-ages promoter who has undergone the AADO’s required background check): How can parents be sure that their kids are safe?

In addition to the obvious answer: You can never be sure your kids are safe unless you lock them in the cellar—there are a couple of other key facts.

First of all, there’s no track record of trouble at teen rock shows. Last week, The Stranger filed a public records request seeking all reports of disturbances at Seattle’s all-ages venues to find out for sure, but we do cover the scene religiously, and in the 4 years since the AADO was passed, we’ve only come across one problem incident. That incident involved a gang called FSU, and it was promptly handled by the SPD, who arrested the gang members—not using nanny-state teen dance laws—but existing weapons laws.

And the reason there’s no track record of trouble at teen dance venues? Because these venues already have the insurance and security that an AADO license mandates. AADO licenses are intended—not for venues that put on rock concerts (which explains the apparent discrepancy between the number of teen shows and licensed promoters)—but rather, for private promoters who want to rent venues to do dances. The fact that most all-ages shows are taking place at regulated and properly-licensed clubs that don’t need AADO licenses to do shows, makes the background check issue less problematic.

The Seattle Times is likely going to make hay out of the fact that Annika Anderson, the promoter who rented CHAC for the zombie dance on Friday March 24, failed to get an AADO license. That’s true. And whoever screwed up should be held accountable.

However, the event had 19 security staff—more than 6X the number the AADO requires.

More important, neither Anderson or CHAC should be held accountable, even by implication, for the deranged actions of Kyle Huff which took place over a mile away at a home on Capitol Hill.

This is ultimately the problem with the pending Seattle Times article. They have seized on the recent tragedy under the premise that it bears some connection to teen dance rules. Their goal all along, it seems, is to print scary headlines in the hopes of sparking a clampdown on our local music culture.

Read all about it in the Seattle Times tomorrow probably.

And they wonder why they’re losing young readership?


CommentsRSS icon

I heard that Kyle Huff used the toilet in the downtown Nordstrom once. There were unsupervised young people in the area as well. Clearly Nordstrom and Kohler are to blame for this tragedy.

i wonder which times reporter/s is/are willing to put their name on this crusade in search of a problem.

"Crusade in Search of a Problem" ...
Damn, Danny—that's pretty good.

from what josh says, times reporters don't want to be held responsible for the editorial boards crusade. but definitely whoever writes this article should be. the editors and this writer are slime.

I'd be tempted to call the Times' exercise a fishing expedition.

But it seems more like grave robbing.


The Stranger just OWNS this media ethics beat!

Stay on it, Josh! You rock! Props to you!


....in your dreams, midget man.

oh yeah, personal insults are so insightful.

This forum stnks - I think I am the best dad in the world. And the best way to parent is NOT to lock your kids in the celler.

Easy to see Josh person has no kids. And should not without some real study.

The issue is not a piece of paper called a permit for me, it is knowing what is happening on the ground and keeping track of that and to the point conversations with teenagers about the real wold - dangers and pleasures.

My two daughters will not go to all night event sat 14. At 17 a very different set of skills and knowledge of the city.

What is this insistence that really young women be at these parties? Is it real concern about the social lives and larger cultrural esperiencs, or just some tongue licking at the propect of picking them up?

Josh, I saw you on the cable recently, get your pussy in the over 25 range. Age appropriate.

You all are sounding like a bit too concerned - no one has asked for the ending of all ages events - but I can tell you a lot of parents in Seattle will be a bit more involved in knowing where their young daughters are at after 2 am.. Of course.

Josh please take your prescribed meds...Jeeesh!

I agree that it is not fair that a tragic shooting leads to a discussion about all ages dances and raves. However, that alone does not mean we should ignore and even candy coat the problems associated with some of these dances (weather they be raves or some other kind of all ages dance.)


Guns kill people AND The AADO is not safe. Both are correct statements.


Despite claims by some of our local politicians, the AADO (All Ages Dance Ordinance) as written, is not a perfectly crafted piece of legislation by far.


As the AADO is written, There is absolutely no curfew and no age cut off in what can be an unsafe and unstable environment - this means that even an 11 year old can be placed in what can be a predatory environment at 4am. Concerned police are literally forced through legislation to look the other way on what they know to be a potentially dangerous situation.


The issues of proper and appropriate security at some of these all night all ages dance (weather legal or not!) has been talked about and ignored. Yes, it is CLAIMED that at this particular rave that night there were 19 security personnel present - But that is only one event out of how many - 30 a week?


Speaking on all ages dances in general, how many security personnel are “protecting” the image -meaning “looking the other way” on illegal activities - for the sake of his or her job ? Though I suspect some will be honest, I believe many will not. Further, when a committee or something like that reports to the Mayors office or the Police Chief’s appointed personnel -Is everyone getting fair and objective information on what is going on in these all ages dances? - Remember many of these people on these committees are promoters, sponsors and so on - with there own interests in mind - Can we say a CONFLICT OF INTERESTS might occur under these circumstances? YES. Can we seek a true balance of information here? Lets hope so.


The issue of weather an all ages event is legal under the AADO - I’m sure will be discussed in the near future - But be assured the AADO as written is far from perfectly crafted. Now josh think about that as you take your docs prescribed meds.

FNARF - if you were parked in the stall next to Huff at Nordstroms, it is OK, but - give us some details. Really, the whole world is interested in any thing at all about this man.

He is international news.

Don't keep it to yourself.....

PC, you're a poster-child for the hysterically worried, over-protective parent. Just the sort of folks that drive kids into dangerous situations, not out of them.

"Yes, it is CLAIMED that at this particular rave that night there were 19 security personnel present"

Thank you. Let's hear some _other_ wild claims:
"even an 11 year old can be placed in what can be a predatory environment at 4am."
"...the problems associated with some of these dances."

What, specifically, are the "problems" you 'claim' are happening? Not just your fear-motivated speculation of what "can" happen, but real, actual, facts? You don't offer them, because there are none. The AADO is actually a very good piece of legislation. You've offered _nothing_ to show that it isn't, except your wild, chicken-little ranting.

The only thing you've convinced me is that the people who want to 'toughen' the AADO don't know how to use their brains. And that they can't spell.

Does Seattle have a curfew? That's something I'd support.

"Does Seattle have a curfew? That's something I'd support."

add that to PCs comments (except I know the diff between weather and whether, but whatevah)

keerist!! Weren't you people ever teenagers! I mean seriously, why don't you try proposing something that actually relates to the real world inhabited by real live teens.

If you wanna make the world safer for the delicate little teenies, then for fuck's sake provide them with options. Limiting their options only drives 'em underground where they're gonna cause a whole lot more trouble for themselves than otherwise.

This makes as much sense drugs being illegal.

The best thing is that the Seattle Times has made themselves totally irrelevant to the conversation by taking such a ridiculous position. In the 90's they screamed over and over that all ages promoters were exploiting children and putting them at risk, that promoters cared more about money than protecting kids from child molersters and drug pushers. They were talking about people like me, Kate Becker, Lori Lefavor, etc. Anyone who knew the people involved, including the Police and all the politcians, knew how silly the Times editorial board was being and so quit listening to them.

But now the Times editorial board is being offensive. Trying to use the Capitol Hill shootings as a platform to push their political agenda. They have lost any credibility they had left on the issue and no one is listening. The Police, Mayor, City Council, and the parents of the murdered kids are disputing any link between the murders and the all ages laws. Even former law and order obsessed City Attorney Mark Sidran has come out saying that if we had the TDO in place it would have done nothing to prevent these murders. And former Police Cheif Norm Stamper personally apologized to me for letting the Police fight against the AADO and make ridiculous statement.

It must be sad to be an editor at the largest paper north of San Francisco and West of Minneapolis and have no credibility or influence in your own town.

Cudos to the Mayor and Council for being rational on this subject. Anyone who looks at the all ages scene post AADO realizes how positive and great it is. Is it perfect? - no way, and no law will make it so. But the AADO has been incredibly successful and as a result we have arguably the best youth music scene in the world.

"keerist!! Weren't you people ever teenagers! I mean seriously, why don't you try proposing something that actually relates to the real world inhabited by real live teens."

I was an actual teen and grew up under a curfew. It was midnight which was pretty reasonable (and, for the record, the cops usually let you slide until 1:00 am). Remember, curfew doesn't mean you can't go out, just not out till dawn. No reason for anyone under 18 to be out that late.

Don't lump me in with PC. He (I assume it's he) seems to not want to let the kids out at all.

Matt form Denver. It's important you are in Denver. I am sure you have lots of concerns there. But here we have not needed a curfew. We have a great music scene and it is very safe and positive. If there is a problem you want to address please be specific. Otherwise it would probably be great for you to focus on your own backyard and not mine. I love Denver though. Nice mountains. Great baskeball coach and team. Good luck in the playoffs! We're a little jealous about that one.

Okay, it really looks like people can't tell where I'm coming from, so let me lay it down for you... I'm all for the AADO as it stands and think Seattle Times should go to hell. Alright?

Now that that's out of the way, I should point out that I've lived in Seattle for 8 years (only recently moved back to Denver for family reasons). I was a big part of Denver's all ages scene back in the day and went to all ages shows both before and after AADO. Kids need dances, concerts, movies, and whatever else keeps them off the streets and out of trouble. Alright? Convinced I'm not a nanny state ninny?

NOW then...how is it that a curfew is a bad idea? As long as it isn't too goddamn early. And just for minors; if you're 18 you're definitely old enough to get around town and do what you want whenever you want.

No, I don't really believe 18 is some magic age but you have to draw the line somewhere...Don't you think maybe the underage victims might be alive today if there was a curfew? (I know, I know, not necessarily, and technically they were off the street when they were at the party...and even if there weren't underage people at the party we might still be mourning for 6 victims anyway...)

I wonder if anyone will read this...

Oh yeah, Meinert, on behalf of the city of Denver and the Nuggets, thanks for your compliments. As for your "backyard," you oughtta know that some things that work in other yards could work in yours too...

Matt from Denver -

I’m not saying don't let the kids out at all. How did you come to this conclusion?


However, I am suggesting that The AADO should at least be reviewed in it's entirety and that ALL opinions should be welcomed by a wide range of people in a review process.


I’ll be honest, I personally feel that some kind of reasonable curfew should be imposed for safety reasons. That’s my opinion -like it or not. But I think I’d be much more content if I knew that a decision (curfew or not ) was based on opinions from a wide sampling of people in Seattle - and of course, you may assume that I’d be discontent if this decision was based on the opinions of a chosen few from a select group.


Personal to Meinert -

At the risk of being IRRELEVENT, I’d like to ask you what your thoughts are about someone who sees illegal activity at say an All Ages Dance event and then later, reports the incident to the police?

And BTW, Mr. Meinert, I’ve noticed that the politicians and police have made themselves open to this AADO thing. As you probably know, crafty wording is extremely important to a politician and a police chief - and, if things go bad, the powers that be can always say “I did not say that, I said this…” -to a very large and diverse group of people (whom incidentally vote. ) I tell ya, this could be problem Meinert.


Anyways, lets not lose sight of the big picture here. Of course the shooting and that rave (or whatevah
) are not related in this case. Does this mean we should over look the problems associated with the AADO? Of course! I think that’s the plan in this case Meinert - Those idiots at the TIMES somehow got us here so focus on the fact that the two are not related and hopefully if all works well, and maybe through some intimidation, the AADO questions will be ignored. That’s the ticket!

And to be TOTALLY IRRELEVENT - if someone punches someone (couse) his girl goes into her restroom and sees two guys fucking, we should only focus on the assailant in this case, we should NOT ask questions such as “What preceded this incident and could it have been avoided”? and for gods sake, never, never ask “Was this bar promoting and encouraging illegal activity that pissed this guy off”? [ END]

I'm just saying everyone has a voice.

Queequeg-

You betcha, -I really should focus on my (speling) as that is much more important than what I have to say.

PI - Are you drunk?

Sorry, PC -- I was thinking of "Breeder Dad" when I said you. Still, I want to draw a distinction between our positions. In the absence of real examples of the types of the stuff you are concerned about, I say leave the AADO alone. A curfew can be a separate piece of legislation, if the fine citizens of Seattle decide to support one.

I grew up in Wyckoff, NJ and came of age during the late 70's early 80's. Fortunate in both era in place, I saw and was influenced by every band in the nearby city that these kids today cite as influences. Most of them come up short. What concerns me the most regarding my two teenage kids is what they are being exposed to; what passes for music and art today. Without my judicious and sly suggestions, their sensibilities won't stand a chance.

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