Cool, you can't see my shoes...

I saw a cup on the floor and assumed it was some sort of drinking issue.

Maybe its my aging almost 30-something eyes but the contrast in the print edition picture doesn't make it easy to discern something being poured into the cup or the splash zone on the ground.

Being the Stranger I assumed someone (male or female) was peeing in that cup.

It's nearly impossible to capture Thetan souls on film, but clearly this photographer did.

Someone must have dumped a body into the fermentation vat. Those poor Thetans are only just now escaping and are on their way to inhabit another human.

looks like a story about liquor sales being unprofitable. Which of course they are thanks in party to the smoking ban passing.

Damn smoking ban! Oh, if only liquor sales were still profitable! A guy can't hardly get a drink in this town anymore!

Let's discuss this dire situation at Barca after work, shall we? Or Purr? Or the Crescent? Or Kincora? Or ManRay? Or R-Place? Or the Comet? Or Chop Suey? Or Garage? Or the Summit Tavern? Or Cha-Cha? Or Chapel? Or Baltic Room? Or Madison Pub? Or Honeyhole? Or Rosebud? Or War Room?

Or Charley's? Or Jade Pagoda? Or Canterbury? Or the Mirabeau Room? Or Twilight Exit? Or Nitelite? Or Sonia's? Or Lava Lounge? Or Shorty's? Or the Redwood? Or Clever Dunne's? Or the Deluxe? Or Stumbling Monk? Or Mecca?

Or Liberty? Or 21 Doors? Or 611 Supreme? Or Neumo's? Or the Vogue? Or CHAC? Or the Roanoke? Or Tommy's? Or College Inn Pub? Or Marcus' Martina Heaven? Or Big Time? Or Moon Temple? Or the Blue Moon? Or Pacific Inn? Or Murphy's? Or Lenny's? Or Chupacabra? Or the Bus Stop?

Or Mars Bar? Or Lobo Inn? Or Downunder? Or Fado? Or Vito's? Or Re-bar? Or Merchant's Cafe? Or the Corner Bar? Or Central Saloon? Or Tractor Tavern? Or the Green Room? Or Kells? Cowgirls Inc.? Or Toi? Or Sunset Tavern? Or Thumpers? Or the Hopvine? Or the Seattle Eagle? Or the Wildrose? Or Watertown? Or Bad Albert's? Or Or J&M Cafe? Or Molly Maguire's? Or New Orleans? Or Owl 'n Thistle? Or the Rendezvous?

are those mienart's tears falling into his beer?

poor baby....

Dan, have all those places gone out of business due to the smoking ban? That is horrible.

Incidentally, I hear that the Mirabeau Room has begun allowing smoking...Is Meinert going to finally stand up to the man? Is he going to get a fine and then fold? Will he take 'em to court?

Stay tuned...

we don't allow smoking at the Mirabeau, that would be illegal. And ME stand up to the man? christ, I'd never do THAT.

But while you are out there thinking about the smoking ban go talk to bar owners who have been in business for 30-50 years who are now looking at closing or selling. Ask the workers whose tips have gone down dramatically. I know you think somehow by enlarging government intrusion into peoples' personal lives you are standing up to the man, but in reality you are using the man to push your own moral agenda. Say hello to the right wing christians and freaky communists on that side of the political world while you tread over there...

I'm not a 100% positive, but has anybody ever heard of a city which banned smoking in bars and restaurants and subseqently saw a loss in sales tax revenue from bars and restaurants?

I can only recall hearing about cities that saw improved sales tax revenues after banning smoking, which suggests to me that bars and restaurants make more money after smoking is banned.

Can anybody demonstrate otherwise?

PS- I thought the photo was somebody peeing into the cup.

Actually, the Jade Pagoda has closed.

But I think it had more to do with bugs in the food than the smoking ban. Smoking ban still sucks.

Odd...I have a picture of one of your bartenders handing out and ashtray to someone smoking in your bar.

Gosh, either you are lying or you aren't in control of your own bar.

Looks like a drunk who took his drink outside while he peed against the wall and didn't realize he was dripping into the cup.

"Hey, my Corona tastes kind of weird."

Yes, I'm against government intrusion into peoples' personal lives. Smoke? Great. Do it in your personal space—also know as "your home." Why? Because I'm also against smokers intruding on other peoples' personal lungs.

Ask any bartender that serves a blue-collar crowd whether their sales and tips have gone down, and they will most likely say "yes." If you don't think this has affected people's lives and livelihoods, you either don't smoke or you only go to upscale bars. Unless of course, they bend the rules and throw out the ashtrays late at night--those places are doing great, as are places that let smokers take their drinks out on their patios. Regardless of your opinion on the ban, that's just sorta the way it is.

Dan,

isn't my business my personal space? or is it yours now?

Yes, it is. And those lunch coutners at Woolworths? Mr. Woolworth's personal space, and he can refuse to serve blacks, if he likes. Oh, no wait: he can't refuse to serve blacks—it's agin' the law. Damn laws!

Yeah, only upscale places for me. I always wear my tux to the Eagle and to Cantebury. Sooo swank.

Dan, you're equating people who use a legal product, a product your paper sells lots of ads to, with racists? Hmm, I don't get it. You didn't answer my question. Let's have a rational discussion about it. People are free to choose not to come into a bar that allows smoking. And a bar is a private business. You say people should be able to choose in their private space to smoke or not, but you really don't seem to believe that. And you also don't seem to care about the businesses that close or the people put out of work by the ban.

Being a non-smoker myself, I think there are ways to make a god law that allows some smoking in bars. But the pro 901 folks, even when faced with evidence of businesses closing and people being put out of work, are only for an all or nothing approach. Very fundamentalist of you all. You will make good gustapo members (see Dan, you can reason and still through in the barbs).

Sorry, should have qualified that further: not just upscale, but bars on Capitol Hill and downtown. I'm sure almost all those places are fine or doing better. Non-trendy neighborhood bars that serve the working class are impacted. This is why the Seattle market could support both smoking and non-smoking spaces--there's more consumer demand for non-smoking venues, because that's the majority opinion. But there's still a whole segment of the population who would deliberately seek out a bar that legally allowed
smoking. Even if it was just the 25-foot rule that was repealed, that would make things better for the little guys.

Dave,

The people of the state of Washington have decided that restaurant and bar workers should not be subjected to secondhand smoke as a condition of their employment. They have also decided that the public should be able to enter into such establishments without breathing toxic air.

Dave, I am somewhat confused. The government has regulated bars and restaurants in many ways before. Protecting the public's health is a fundamental function of government.

Are you also against mandated fire regulations? Proper food handling regulations? Capacity laws? Do you contend that a business owner should be allowed to operate his establishment in a manner that puts the general public at risk? Doesn't the government have the responsibility to ensure that licensed establishments meet general safety requirements?

Do you really think that your business license is a right confered to you and not a priveledge to do business provided to you on the condition that you follow certain regulations to ensure that your business does not jeopardize health?

Yes, I think doing business is a right not a priveledge the state allows. I believe that about speech and many other issues as well. I know you probably disagree, most healthists, communists and fascists do. That is why it is surprising to me that Savage, normally sort of a moderate libertarian, would promote a law limiting adults' choices. If someone was forced to go to a bar, I could understand. But no one is forced to go to a bar, they have to be adults to be there, and they are free to come and go as they please. We're talking about private property and adults. We're also talking about smoking decks and spaces where there are no employees. And we're talking about a legal product a bar is allowed to sell.

Should a restaraunt be able to sell you a burger that makes you sick? No.

But we have already decided that a bar should be able to sell you cigarettes. That is legal. I assume you, Johnny, want to make that illegal as well. But I don't think Savage does. Right Dan?

Dan's the same way with the bathhouses, which I find personally icky, but it isn't really any of my business.

Dan's rule is: if Dan doesn't like it, make it illegal.

Why shouldn't a restaurant be able to serve hamburgers that make you sick?

You want them to be able to serve air that makes people sick.

Wait! Forget smoking - what about PEEING in public? Legal or illegal?

Also, check out the other beautiful piss takes here :
http://www.powerhousebooks.com/titless06/insidepeesonearth.html

Pretty pretty!

Johnny - do you want tabacco to be illegal? Do you drive a car?

PS - I love, LOVE, Kelly O

Kelly O is one of the best human beings ever to walk the face of this planet.

And she can half fill a lime-adornded cup with her dead-eye aim and long range while photographing the feat.

Kelly O did not take that photo (see her link above). She does take lots of photos, though. 50 of them will be on display at Sweatshop Inc, (Cap Hill's coolest new art space/collective) opening on First Thursday next week.

1202 E. Pine St, downstairs. Bring your appetite.

Oops. Apologies around.

It looks like the slime I spit back into my cup at Safeco Field on opening day, it was a new "ballpark themed" local brew, but it was um...slimey. It was highly disturbing really, although it in no way stopped me from drinking more beer, it's the slime I stay away from now.

I want to hear more about Meinert's "god law".

Can't a lady pee in a cup in this town w/o meinert talking about the smoking ban and ruining the mood? Sheesh!

dave meinert is right, the rest of you are wrong. i violate the 25 ft rule every day. got a problem with that? make my fucking day!

so what the hell happened to the 4 non smokers who were supposed to replace every smoker? hasn't worked out that way guys. you are costing the very workers you allegedly are protecting from making a living. stupid public health nannies.

I don't think the bathhouses should be closed—I think they should be regulated by the health dept. like any other business. If as many infections were traced back to a Denny's as are traced back to, say, Club Z every year, the health dept. would act. But they don't because, hey, it's just fags. Who cares about the health and well being of fags? Not, it seems, fags, so... why bother? Let 'em get sick. There are plenty of things that I think are icky that I don't want to see illegalized—like, say, eating pussy. Gross. But, hey, lets keep it safe and legal.

As for making tobacco illegal, I'm opposed. I also don't think pot or coke or heroin should be illegal. But even if other drugs were legalized, they shouldn't be something you can smoke, snort, or shoot in bars and clubs. I mean, could you imagine the chaos that would ensue if people started using, say, coke in clubs? Oh, the humanity.

Look, I smoke pot now and then. But it's stinky and gross and I would never dream of making people who didn't want to smell or inhale my pot smoke do so. On those ocassions when I'm get high, I go outside or someplace private and do it.

La la la. Think I'll go get high now.

Wow, 36 posts and no one's made the connection to the Slog posts awhile back about Golden Showers beer?

I'd like to see the definitive evidence in the drop in cancer rates among the service industry professionals which this law is purported to support. And, I'd like to see evidence of the decline in second hand smoke related deaths that's so highly touted by the proponents of this ban -- these arguments are total bullshit from a scientific standpoint and fuzzy logic if you like. It is truly a joy to not have to wash your clothing after seeing a show, but for christ's sake, shouldn't you wash your crusty ass clothes after scuzzing them up at a venue anyway -- god knows, I wipe my ass after shitting and I wash my clothes after wearing them. Whether your clothes smell like yesterdays Garlic Nan or last nights pack of Parliament lights, fucking wash them. If that's too much to ask, then please start washing your fucking armpits, assholes, hair, etc. so I'm not subjected to your fetid existence when I'm out for the night. The smell of BO, cologne, farts, breath, ad nauseum is more repugnant by far than the slowest death you could cook up for me. If it were truly necessary to outlaw smoking inside restaurants, clubs, etc. the market would have put those smoke-plus places out of business long ago. It's the smokeless joints that were failing because liquor and tobacco are fantastic companions. Now that the playing field is leveled, are we, as patrons, truly better off? The smoking bar patron doesn't have the singular voice to change the status quo and based on what I've observed, the non-smoking patron has nothing but their dry cleaning bill as evidence of the evil of the cigarettes. More carcinogens are produced by automobiles, corporate pollution and public consumption than the whole of smokerdom could ever puff out, yet we are content to fight the individual and not the institutions. "The Smoking Issue" by Joe Jackson (available online, Google it) contains much more information regarding smoking fallacies. Smoking's probably not good for your health, but neither is living on this planet. This is a small issue in a much greater debate.

"Smoking's probably not good for your health..." Wow. You got an extra helping of NO SHIT for breakfast, didn't you?

Yeah, let's mask the smell of BO, cologne, farts, and bad breath with... carcinogens. Nice plan.

I hate the argument that if non-smokers don't like smokey air, they should just stay home. Why should the inconvience be on the non-smoker? I wish we didn't need a law to enforce courtesy. I think smoking in a bar is as rude as someone walking through and sticking thier finger into strangers' drinks. You would be asked to leave for doing that. Let me enjoy a rock show or a drink without breathing your smoke, and I'll keep my fingers out of your drinks.

Also, I know this probably isn't the norm, but I go out at least twice as much since the smoking ban went into effect. And all the stories of lower tips has led me to tip a little extra as a 'thanks' for enforcing the smoking ban.

Hello, assholes, the issue has been settled.

Smoking in bars is now illegal. Even smokers agree- smells better, and you can wear your jeans from the day before in a pinch if you're late for work because they don't smell like shit.

It's a violation of liberty that someone who owns a business can't control what kinds of legal activity may happen there. That's frustrating, but the vote was a landslide in favor of restricting legal activity. So whatever.

The more non-smokers go out, the better. Please, non smokers-- GO OUT OFTEN! Dan's cavalier attitude towards the wages of servicepeople is infuriating. He mentioned the Eagle, which he never goes to. If he spoke to the employees there, he'd feel like a jackass for intimating that they haven't noticed a difference in their take home pay.

Washington is real, real big. Dan talks like the five fucking square miles around LIBERTY are the only ones in the state. Ask someone who works at a bar in Omak how this is affecting their lifestyle (which, I feel safe to assume, you already think is shitty). I know from personal experience- it sucks for them.

Whatever. By the way, Dan makes a smart argument for the regulation of bathhouses above. It's an emotional one which tosses out any notion of the liberty we, as Americans, are supposed to be granted just for being citizens. But it is much smarter than what he really wants and what he has publicly called for time and time again: the total closure of bathhouses (which, again, I think are icky anyway). If he has made an argument for their "management" before this slog comment forum, I haven't seen it.

My personal space has been violated and someone should pay. I've got this damn image stuck in my head of of Dan in deep cunnilingus.

It's just not right.

This thread has informed me that:

1) Dan Savage is a hypocrite and

2) The cover that I thought was just someone pouring a drink from high up is actually someone pissing into a cup. That is REALLY GROSS!!!

But kind of hot. Maybe something the editor wishes were outlawed (kidding!).

.. i thought i should weigh in as one of those non smoking workers in those formerly smoke filled bars whose choice it was to either put up with smoke or quit and find another profession. i have records that i haven't played in years that STILL smell funky like smoke.. a mixture of old stanky socks and nicotine.. so i've imagined what my lungs had gone through and i'm more than a little bit frightened about what the reprocussions may be one day - mu asthma is a lot better..
sorry if i offend anyone and i'm truly sorry if someone else has lost their livelihood based on the new law... but
i feel a WWHOLE FUCK OF A LOT BETTER AND HOPE IT STAYS THIS WAY..
just wanted to let somebody know...

I'm a non smoker. Now that the smoking ban is in effect, I have been to more bars in the last 4 months than I have in the last 4 years.

Just take a DEEP breath and relax (without risking cancer from some rude fuck's second hand smoke).

Riz - good to hear from you. I agree I like to not breathe second hand smoke as well. But that is not really the issue. The issue is that 901 is so extreme. There are many ways reasonable smoking regulations could have been put into place that would not have put people out of work, ruined peoples' lifelong careers, etc,etc. But the anti-smokers don't care about PEOPLE, they care about their obsession and are willing to hurt people to 'win' their anti-smoking crusade. It's sad is all. And the current cover made me think of how selling drinks has become less profitable. That's all.

to SDA in SEA, it's easy for you to say to relax, you aren't in a life crisis as a single mother raising two children on your cocktailing tips which have now decreased by 40%. I know people will think that is just a sob story, but it is a real story and the 901 fascists should just realize that there are many similar.

Go to Kelly O's show.

Smoking ban? Enjoy it while it lasts. Both NY and CA have bans on smoking. Within a year the bans become far more flexible in clubs and bars. In Santa Cruz, you can smoke in most of the bars and there doesn't seem to be a decent sports bar that is smoke-free.

Hm. I go to the Eagle pretty frequently—you won't find me there are at, say, 2 in the morning giving head on the patio, but I will go early in the evening and play Monster Madness with my arch-enemy Eli Sanders.

Also, in the past seven days I've been to Hopvine, Madison Pub (twice), Barce, and Linda's (twice). I get out, I drink. I don't drink all over town, because I don't drive, but I drink. Tend to do it right after work, though.

I have nothing to say about the hit that waitresses are taking—and it's BS to say I have no sympathy. My mom was a waitress. I think it's an unfortunate aspect of this new law, but one that I hope is only temporary. Studies have shown that booze consumption and bar business does not go down post-smoking bans. But some folks are taking a hit, and that blows.

Perhaps the club owners who seem so concerned about their struggling waitresses now can, oh, give them raises or offer them (and their two kids) health insurance. We didn't hear much from bar owners about the struggles of bar staff before the smoking ban, and I think what we're hearing from them now is a bit dubius.

And, yes, I have called for shutting down the baths—as they're currently operating. If a Denny's location was the source of, say, a massive Hep outbreak, the health dept. would shut it down. And then, after the fixed the problem, re-open it. While I don't understand how anyone could drop their trousers in a bathhouse, I don't think they should be shuttered. They should be regulated. And when a massive disease outbreak is traced back to one, it should be shut down—like the Denny's—and only allowed to re-open once it has taken steps to correct the problem.

Back to the smoking ban: I'm with Riz. I'm really sorry that the ban has hurt some folks, but I'm happy it's in place and I want it to stay in place. But I am a reasonable guy: last night I was in a bar with a patio—one where smoking isn't allowed under the idiotic 25 foot rule—and it was so fucking smoky outside that I went and drank inside. I didn't call the cops.

Jeez! All I wanted to know was what people thought was going down on the cover!

"Perhaps the club owners who seem so concerned about their struggling waitresses now can, oh, give them raises or offer them (and their two kids) health insurance. We didn't hear much from bar owners about the struggles of bar staff before the smoking ban, and I think what we're hearing from them now is a bit dubius."

Dan - great analysis....so income has gone way down and you expect business owners to raise wages in light of that? Fucking genius. Before the smoking ban many bar workers were making decent money. And you're on crack if you think bar owners like me haven't been actively doing things to increase business and along with it pay for the workers. Many of us are actively involved in work that will create new and well paying jobs in the music business and clubs are definitely a subset of this. Employees are a key element.

What's dubious is people using the veil of concern for workers' as a reason to make a law banning smoking. Dubious, cynical, and in light of the evidence of the harm the law is doing, hypocritical.

Here's the thing, we could have created a law that licensed bars who wanted to allow smoking to do so, at the same time creating a situation where most bars did not allow it. We could have created options so people who don't want to be at a bar with smoke can go to a bar that doesn't allow it. And people who want to smoke can do so at bars and clubs where they choose to go to. But that's not good enough for the smoking Taliban. You want to decide what EVERYONE else can and can't do because you don't like the smell of something. If you cared about workers declining pay you would favor some change in the law. But pro 901 folks don't care. And that is telling.

Oh, and my original post was just about the cover too. Good cover by the way.