It's probably hard to picture for most current Seattle area residents, but when I was a kid the 520 bridge was a toll bridge, and I vaguely remember (correct me if I'm wrong) something in the Washington State constitution about only being allowed to toll until the state has paid the project off, which seems fair to me.

I remember the 520 tolls well. This isn't like that, though; this is electronic, and you don't have to stop. It's a good idea. They do it all over the place outside the US. Americans should travel more, they'd realize how backward this nation has become in the past decade or so.

Fnarf wrote: "They do it all over the place outside the US."

Actually, they do it all over the place back East. That was one of the observations from today's forum. As a native Pennsylvanian, I remember well some expensive trips on the Pennsylvania Turnpike -- and some even more expensive trips trying to avoid the Pennsylvania Turnpike (you can imagine how they became even more expensive).

I should add, though, that it was stated as a point of fact today that nowhere in the United States has a heretofore-free highway been converted into a tolled highway.

And our region doesn't exactly have a reputation for innovations and firsts.

I think you're correct in saying there's never, in the U.S., been a highway converted suddenly to a toll road - but southern California has it's share of existing highway's that have added toll lanes. (91 to the Inland Empire is one I can think of by name). Extremely steep peak hours tolls on that one - but it's hard to us that as either a success or not, because traffic is just simply so out of control in that area to begin with.

Sounds good - to a degree. They have generally better roads in Europe, since most of the good ones are toll roads. Of course, the Europeans take driving more seriously and don't consider driving "a right" as do most Americans; the average European sees it as a privilege. That's why they have such Draconian laws guarding against driving while intoxicated.
But where the comparison falls apart is that in Europe, trains and subways are developed to such an extent they provide true alternatives; and the cities also allow walking to many places - groceries, dry cleaners, etc. - whereas in America, it's all about motorized individual transportation - motorcycle, automobile, truck or scooter - for the most part. Where things get mucked up is when Americans feel they have a "right" to get in their automobiles (or on their scooters or motorcycles). They have a right to move freely - that's it (see the U.S. Constitution).
So yeah, bring on those toll roads. But then, let's also get some bus service where the buses run a bit more often, during the day. And maybe, we could finally see that Sound Transit train we pay extra money for on our vehicle tabs (along with retiring the monorail debt).

I agree that tolls are the most appropriate way to pay for roads.

Funny how Transportation Choices never suggests spreading the costs via an annual license fee for bicyclists who take up space on public roads when they aren't taking space away from sidewalk users.

In Virginia (and perhaps elsewhere as well), there are highways where there are a combination of free and toll lanes. The toll lanes effectively end up being like express lanes. During heavy commuting hours, the free lanes get bogged down like you would expect, and people who are willing pay for the toll lanes, which move along much faster. The highway from Dulles airport into Washington DC, for example, operates like this.

This could possibly be done around here when new lanes are added to highways?

problem is most conservatives are hypocrites. they want tax breaks without reduced services, not pay-as-you-go government.

Right - and this guy believes in creationism, too. After that whole fight, I would hope the City would stop hiring these people to study projects (their 2012 Olympic Bid analysis was a real doozy, too).

Ever wait in the line to get across the (tolled) Bay Bridge? They have transponder lanes there, too, but a whole lot of people still have to use cash.

The other thing about tolls is that they are frequently applied in a way that hits the low-earning or middle-class more heavily than the rich.

Bill Gates can afford to get a discounted year-round toll pass for his cars - as a fraction of his income, it's pretty small, and we give him a cut rate.

But drive a beater car because you make $10 an hour doing HTML and have two kids (not fun on a bus) and it feels different.

A better bet would be to have smart tolls - make it toll-free for transit, and charge a flat fee per driver, reduced by each person in the car by one-quarter, until you pay half-price.

Make HOV lanes exempt too.

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