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Wednesday, April 5, 2006

Nickels’s Anti-Rebuild Hysteria

Posted by on April 5 at 14:28 PM

Seattle Mayor Greg Nickels, inaugurating what appears to be new phase in his campaign of pro-tunnel hysteria, released a list of “myths” today about a rebuilt Alaskan Way Viaduct, titled “Myths of a Big Ugly ‘Rebuild.’” (The rebuild is one of three viaduct replacement options that are likely to be on a November advisory ballot; the others are a $4 billion-plus tunnel, which Nickels supports, and a transit/surface option that involves tearing down the viaduct, replacing it with a boulevard, and making improvements to the street grid and transit connections downtown.)

The press release, which is as blatant an example of campaigning on government time as I’ve ever seen, sets up a list of “myths” about the rebuild (which Nickels insists on referring to, repeatedly, as “a bigger, uglier viaduct”) and knocks them down. Many of them are claims no one is actually making: things like “The bigger viaduct involves retrofitting the current viaduct”; “A bigger viaduct can be built without replacing utilities or rebuilding the seawall”; and “A bigger viaduct will be better for traffic” (huh?). Others are wildly exaggerated versions of claims people are actually (and, in many cases, legitimately) making: “The bigger viaduct will continue to provide stunning views of Elliott Bay and the Olympic Mountains (potentially true, contrary to what the mayor continues to claim), and “The tunnel is risky and will cost many times more than projected while a bigger viaduct involves little or no risk” (no one’s actually saying this, but it’s undeniable that projects that involve digging, like subways and underground freeways, are more likely to run into overruns than projects that happen on the surface.)

Voters can expect to hear more and more from the mayor as November’s election approaches. Last month, he sent out several press releases calling for voters to “say no to the Big Ugly” and held a press conference during a routine viaduct closure “celebrating a waterfront without noise.” But the campaign may be short-circuited by city elections law. Last year, Nickels got himself in trouble for using city money and employee time to produce an elaborate election-year brochure touting his accomplishments; if NIckels keeps up his pro-tunnel campaign after the city council puts the advisory measure on the ballot, Seattle Ethics and Elections director Wayne Barnett says, “that certainly does raise some pretty serious issues.”


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It's a red meat kind of day for ECB! Keep throwing the controversy out there. For the record I support the tunnel ALL THE WAY!

Great post ECB!

Thanks SNCC Kid!

It is not campaigning UNTIL it becomes an advisory ballot. If the Council had any balls they would avoid a stupid advisory ballot and give their own recommednation to the State -- who is the ACTUAL decisionmaker on this.

I am a West Seattlite and I will say that I have heard LOTS of people talk about how they want to keep there stunning views from a top a new Viaduct. All the engineers I heard talk about this say the new highway regulations and requirements WILL make these 'amenity' impossible unless you are riding in a vehicle that is high up.

I go for the tunnel. Capacity plus downtown waterfront. What's to stop us from adding BRT to that capactity and tolling?

How about a Chunnel from West Seattle to Downtown? I really think the idea of Ducks is not actually that bad. Drive around West Seattle neighbohoods picking people up and then boat across the water droppin in downtown. Then an esclator (with overhead weather protection) that goes all the way up and down Columbia so I can actually wear my hot shoes without breaking my neck or having to change my shoes. If none of those ideas meet the feasibility test then I vote for the Tunnel. I agree with WESTY, we need the Capacity and the awesome waterfront.

Westy,
You should look at the drawings for the partial tunnel before you tout that it gives Seattle a waterfront. How do you like the part that is a new aerial highway next to Pike Place Market, or how about the surface road + trench + ramp mess of spagetti roughly 200' wide south of King?

Oops, guess you can't see what they actually are planning to build, since the renderings of these areas are somehow still not ready to show to the public after 2 years of planning and design work.

What will happen to the rest of the downtown surface streets when we lose the Viaduct and go with 4 lane, slow moving, pedestrian oriented Alaskan Way Boulevard? How will impact the pedestrain experience through the rest of downtown?

I am not going to be moving to downtown condo and the State is not going to give us 2 and a quarter billion dollars to build the needed transit capacity.

I live in West Seattle and the monorail would not have done anything for me. I live on Alki and the system would have come no where near me. 4 billion in fixed transit will do nothing for me, 4 billion in bus service might get me something but as you all point out those buses will be on the same roadways. West Seattle Bridge with no Viaduct means an hour commute on the bus rather than 20 minutes.

Westy-

They're full of shit about views - the current concrete outer barrier (which, granted, you can see through) for the AWV is 2 inches taller than the sort of concrete jersey barrier generally used on freeways and bridges.

BTW - the poster above is right about this not technically being electioneering until there is actually something on the ballot.

That doesn't mean the Mayor isn't an unethical disingenuous knob, though.

Red meat, ECB, red meat. I'm sick of this whole controversy already.

Let's just tear the thing down right now for the hazard and eyesore it is, and think about what to do next later.

amen to that, new urbanism. it is a shame things don't work that way

SCHMUFACE Wrote:
"West Seattle Bridge with no Viaduct means an hour commute on the bus rather than 20 minutes"

But isn't that what you are going to get anyway, Schmuface? The build out for either the tunnel or a viaduct rebuild is projected to take three to nine years. For you, that will be three to nine years of one hour commuting each way on the bus. WSDOT and the Mayor have conveniently forgotten to inform us all how they will help mitigate this problem. Why? Because if they do,it will only support a planned and engineered no-rebuild option. The Third Option.

The irony of this situation is absolutely stunning, and I am waiting for the tortured logic that will accompany their explanation!

---Jensen

Folks are bashing Nickels for playing hardball on why the rebuild option is awful. The 'nobuild' folks here and elsewhere are hammering away at Nickels and his criticsms, which is fine, but if Nickels fails, the result is another goddamn fucking viaduct on the waterfront. Unacceptable. I think the 'nobuild' is a good idea, but if it leads to another viaduct, then hell no.

i agree with will -- i prefer the 'no-build' but i'll take a tunnel anyday over a rebuild. even an imperfect tunnel that only goes just north of the market. so i'm supporting the no-build but i'm not going to join in this hysterical mayor-bashing. i too fear it will only lead to a rebuild.

What's unacceptable about the viaduct? Viaducts are great. They pull the traffic up out of the way so people can have easy access to the waterfront.

The viaduct accomplishes exactly what the anti-viaduct people claim to want. A surface option doesn't and can't.

What the no-build people AND the tunnel people are going to accomplish if they get their way is a vast wasteland of nothingness, like the Embarcadero in SF -- an urban disaster area.

The problem with Seattle's waterfront doesn't have anything to do with the Viaduct. It has to do with the sad fact that there's nothing ON the waterfront that a sentient being would be interested in, except the ferry, which is frankly not that many people. The tragedy is that Seattle is too stupid to use the space that's there. There's LOTS OF SPACE.
Smart cities cope just fine with waterfront viaducts.

>

Smart cities don't have waterfront viaducts.

I'm sure you're not serious...um, there isn't much on the waterfront because there is this huge, noisy freeway right there. Why would anyone want to hang out on our waterfront now. You have to scream just to have a conversation. It's kind of a no-brainer.

You obviously haven't been on the waterfront much. Screaming is hardly necessary. If you're at the water's edge, Alaskan Way is much noisier than the Viaduct itself.

yeah, fnarf, that the viaduct isn't noisy. it's more like a sanctuary. haaa. i bet you do spend more time on the waterfront than me -- so much so that you've gone deaf from the viaduct and now find it tranquil over there.

By the way, just for the record, the DOT measured the decibel levels along the waterfront:

A decibel level of 55 dBA is typical for people talking at a distance of 10 feet, but near the Seattle Aquarium, the existing decibel level today is often around 73 dBA in the daytime. Near the viaduct, traffic noise from the viaduct is approximately 10 dBA greater (appears twice as loud) than the noise from other sources. To the human ear, 65 dBA (a typical washing machine noise level from 3 feet away) is intrusive. Short-term noise level measurements taken at the Harbor Steps and Victor Steinbrueck Park during the daytime exceeded the FHWA traffic noise abatement criterion of 67 dBA.

Does the study test the noise from other sources, including the presence of city streets all around? What's the noise level at, say, 1st and Pike, or 4th and Marion?

Gosh, noise in the city, what horrors will descend on us next? THIS IS WHAT CITIES SOUND LIKE.

haha fnarf you are awesome! why let the facts stand in the way of your opinion? i'll suggest a new line of argument for you: "the viaduct isn't noisy enough! it's too damn quiet, that's the only thing wrong with it!"
hey, you should live under the viaduct. you could be the viaduct troll!

Gene,
OK. You want a tunnel.
Maybe you'll even pay your share of the minimum $2 billion extra it will cost.
But do you think that the rest of us will?
Especially those of us who live in Kent, Lynnwood etc?

(And saying "Fuck Lynnwood" is not a good answer when we are asking them to pay for it!)

I agree with Gene and Will: people like ECB should stop bashing Nickels for campaigning against the rebuild - even if it's in support of the tunnel.

Otherwise we might just end up with the rebuild - thanks to all your tunnel bashing.

As for FNARF - one wonders how he can say such obvious untruths sometimes.

The waterfront was great when the viaduct was shut down after the earthquake - you could even hear summer nights on the pier concerts from Steinbreuck park.

Now with the proposed tunnel you probably won't even if they come back.

But hey, once that first phase of the tunnel gets built - you'll have the option to extend of lid it later, when phase one succeeds and people realize how great it is.

Chew on that, Erica.

Building a viaduct on a city waterfront in 1955 may have been ok. But today would be a total fucking disaster. The waterfront sucks in no small part due to the viaduct.

If the 'nobuilders' manage to enable another viaduct on the waterfront, then they're fucking idiots.

...more likely, the rest of the lid will never be built, because phase 1 went 50+% over budget, and had a 20% revenue shortfall because it counted on Federal funding that had not yet been approved when ground was broken.

and Erica is a bore.

raw data: i don't want a tunnel, i want nothing. but i'll take a tunnel over a rebuild, yeah. and i think it is pretty simple in terms of raising money: tolls! man, where i grew up, you couldn't drive 50 feet without having to pay a toll. there are zero tolls around here. it's such an obvious way to pay for a road project: tax the people who actually use it.

New Urbanism:

Summer nights at the Pier? Whatever.
You're an idiot.

The Tunnel is another pie-in-the-sky idea in which a rogue politician is forcing a too-expensive idea down our throats. Has anyone ever heard of a budget? Hello?

raw data: i don't say "fuck lynnwood" but i would hope people in lynnwood don't say "fuck seattle" which is EXACTLY what you'd be saying if you support a rebuild. how would you like a huge elevated freeway running through your neighborhood in lynnwood? not very much, i'll bet

So very funny -

From the State DOT - and they do have the money, there are two options, not three,

Talked with two insiders at Olympia over the weekend, and they assured me that, yes if it comes to the need, Gregoire will have a very oh so polite news event and TELL seattle what is going to happen.

She will be applauded in all other parts of the State. No political risk.

You can tell that the monorail failed for a reason - the same feople are now wedded to the no build and the Stranger is just so on to this crowd of radical - but won't work at all - civic improvement.

Regroupd folks and come up with a real project that really works. More pea patches? More trees in green Seattle?

How about really new ideas and thinking about more bikes? Rad stuff, no retread..

Love the tunnel.

Rebuild is rediculous. Would we build one today if it didn't exist? No. Never. No. If Nickels wanted the rebuild, Erica would be CLAMORING for a tunnel. LAME. Oh, yeah, FUCK LYNNWOOD.

God, all we ever see in this debate is partisan bickering in defense of the three plans that all have their benefits and drawbacks, while attacking the others, and no one ever want to discuss the key core issues that would settle this ridiculous debate once and for all.

If you fight to put the no-rebuild option on the ballot, how do you know you can get a majority to vote for it in November? Especially when many of you who support call the very citizens who will get to vote on it 'car-addicted'. Do you not see the logic gap? That's like asking an all-Nazi jury to spare a Jew from the death penalty.

I mentioned this voting issue before and it was curiously ignored. ECB, are you a big fan of people wasting their time and effort?

I think, if you want to drudge up support for the no-highway option, the focus should be on getting proponents of the rebuild and tunnel options to describe how they plan to handle traffic during the 3-9 years that the viaduct isn't going to be there.

I think that if the ultimate goal is to just eliminate the highway, the best way to accomplish this would be to support the tunnel but insist on a cap on the cost. Tunnelling will inevitably cost more than anyone expects, and when we run out of money we'd (hopefully) end up with nothing.

If it was just the city voting on this, the no-highway option would have a small chance of winning, but when you add the powers-that-be in the rest of the Sound Transit District, and especially state politicians in Olympia, who are all going to have a say in this, there's really no straightforward way to prevent a rebuild or a tunnel.

I'm not optimistic about this... everyone outside Seattle is intent on a simple rebuild. The concept that roads are not always a good idea is totally foreign to them.

Christopher-

If the city runs out of money/doesn't have the money for a tunnel, we will get another viaduct.

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