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Thursday, April 6, 2006

Missing Epigrams

Posted by on April 6 at 14:22 PM

This week’s feature about the malevolent history of the building that Club Z is in originally had two epigrams at the top. They were edited out of the final version.* They are great quotes, and both were echoing in the distance as the piece was coming together. They are:

“…last night while [he] was sitting on my face, I began to think how futile life is, no matter what you do—it all ends in Death, we are given such a short time…ā€¯
—Andrew Holleran, Dancer from the Dance

“…promiscuity might be about an ambivalent need for love, or the desire, the stray hope, for something other than nothing.ā€¯
—Charles D’Ambrosio

[*There was some debate in The Stranger’s offices over whether epigrams are “pretentious.” My opinion is that epigrams are wonderful, that they give you a sense of what the writer has been reading and thinking about, that they draw you in and, when you’re done with an article, suggest something else you could go read—like Dancer from the Dance (a great novel) or D’Ambrosio’s (unfuckingbelievably great) essays—but my editor, not a huge fan of things “literary” or “twee,” wanted the epigrams to go, and another staffer, let’s say his name is Eli, agreed, writing in an e-mail: “I think an epigram can be off-putting. It can feel too self-justifying or too self-important, even if that’s not at all how it’s intended… It feels like a stalling tactic or a blast of trumpets, either way I don’t like it.” So they were killed.]


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But those quotations have achieved the opposite: they have convinced me, perhaps unreasonably, to never ever crack a book by either one of those guys.

I'm not interested in an announcement that gives me a "sense of what the writer has been reading and thinking about..."

That is pretentious.

It's the writer's job to work what he's been reading and thinking about into the article itself. If he/she has gotta tell me in an epigram...well....

Editor made the right decision.

I just had lunch, and I read the article. And while it was a bit long winded (especially the whole Hasegowa tangent) it was pretty interesting.

Here's what did strike me as odd. I was reading the article when my server pointed out that Club Z was directly across the street from where I was sitting. I turned around and sure enough, there it was. I'd never have assumed that across the street was a gay bathhouse.

The anominity of the building's exterior is in direct contrast to the contents and actions of it's members inside that drab building.

I strongly and right away got "literary" from this piece. So, epigrams or no, literary it is to me. And, FNARF, what don't you like about the quotes? Why would you never ever crack a book by one of them? I'm just curious at such a strong statement from a couple of quotes.

Christopher,
I just wanted to say that I enjoyed the article quite a bit. I personally enjoy reading histories that follow interesting tangents. That's why I spend all of my work time on the internet looking up random minutiae instead of actually working.

Hey SNCC KID--It'd be a lot more pretentious to write extra paragraphs to work in some fancy quote that doesn't actually fit in the flow of the story. But I see what you mean, and I was OK with cutting them. I just wanted to share them. I think they're great.

I also enjoyed this article and also I think that your epigrams are perfect examples of points you were trying to get across in the article, although, i have no opinion on if they should have been included or not.

Sure, epigrams are pretentious. But what's wrong with being pretentious? Everything high culture is pretentious. Hell, my friends even think lo-fi is pretentious. Pretentious, pretentious, pretentious. What a useless word. (Like Amis calling everything 'boring').

If the Stranger can deal with footnotes, I think it can deal with epigrams.

Honestly, can anyone explain to me what's so wrong with being pretentious? As if ambition were a fundamental moral flaw.

Amy Jo -- Maybe too strong. But there are only so many hours in a day and a huge stack of things I want to read, and none of them are about "the ambivalent need for love". Some of them are about "how futile life is", but the ruminations of someone whose face is being sat on are not interesting to me. I'd rather reread Watt by Samuel Beckett.

In short, neither of these quotes interest me at all, and more, neither suggests to me a perceptive writer; they're banal. Neither is very well or interestingly written. Other passages might not strike me so, or even these, in better context. I dunno. Holleran and D'Ambrosio might be ultrafantastic both. But they definitely don't achieve their aim, if that aim is to get me to read their books.

Hey Fnarf -- shhhh. Some people HAVE read D'Ambrosio, and will remember the context of that quote. It's not even a whole sentence, it's part of a sentence... I guess I should change the grammar to reflect that. There.

"I was reading the article when my server pointed out that Club Z was directly across the street from where I was sitting."

Funny, the same thing happened to me, except that I was on the bus and read the sentence about the club's address just as the driver had stopped at the intersection of Boren and Pike.

HA, i had a friend stagger in there one time looking for a cash machine. Wasn't what she expected. Great article Mr. Frizelle.

Christopher: Hey, she asked me, I answered.

FNARF, thanks and I know what you mean about not enough hours in the day.

How can I be expected to read books when there are so many Slog comments to post?

Hey, Christopher, I just read your article, and while I still dunno about those other guys, your article is fucking great. Maybe too much for one story, if you know what I mean. But the Hasegawa "tangent" was terrific stuff, and a great detective story. I'm crazy about the old Polk directories and the secret history of buildings. Bravo.

One correction: the Polk directories didn't stop publishing in 1993. What they did was, stop letting businesses who rent them -- you can't buy them -- keep the old ones once the new one comes out. So the library has to give the '05 ones back when they get the '06s. You should be able to find a current one somewhere, maybe in a different section of the library. This sucks for researchers.

So on the evidence I've seen you're more interesting than D'Ambrosio or Holleran!

epigrams: totally pretentious. good choice to kill 'em.

i read the piece last night, over dinner. my new wednesday tradition is dinner alone at the 5 spot on upper queen anne, with the fresh stranger.

the past two weeks have been great for the impending swimsuit season. although i'd already read the huff pieces online, the print edition last week reduced me to tears over my cobb salad.

sordid tales of fisting, anonymous sex, and crystal meth completely put me off my pork chops last night.

thank you, stranger, for the dieting help. i will not need to resort to the anorexic tactics pointed out by cienna in the slog entry above (a fascinating piece over the weekend in the ny times).

p.s. to christopher: that was some of your finest writing to date. a bit rambling in spots but, for the most part, quite compelling and suitably dark.

bath houses are disgusting. i am glad to see club z go.

I'd actually like to see the building stay, though. Clapped-out old buildings are necessary to keep the street heterogeneous. The new building is going to have much higher rents which will make interesting tenants unlikely. It doesn't have to be a bath house to be interesting. Put a deli in; there probably won't be one in the new building.

FNARF: as is often the case, i agree with you. i hate to see old buildings go.

it seems to me that a low income health care center would be appropriate for this spot. or a harm reduction center.

Wait, are you talking about epigrams or epigraphs? Epigrams, I believe, are memorable witty sayings such as "To love oneself is the beginning of a life-long romance" or "brevity is the soul of wit." And epigraphs are quotations at the beginning of piece of writing. Not to get all Eats Shoots and Leaves on your sloggin', but you should probably sort it out before making your argument.

I can add the following to Christopher Frizzelle's interesting piece about the Club Z.:

Club Z. opened in 1976 as the successor to the Atlas Club, 1318 Second Av., downtown. The Atlas was owned by two drugged out lovers, the name of one of which was Heimbigner. When they were forced out of the three story Atlas Club (on the third through fifth floors, one took an elevator from the street to the fourth floor), they relocated as the Club Z. The scene at the Atlas was mainstream gay male, and pretty much everyone went there. Not so at the Club Z. By that time the two lovers were known for heavy drugging in their certain room, always on the make. But the mainstream had moved on, with the opening of Tugs and soon, the Brass Door. Dave's Baths on First Av in Belltown supplanted the Club Z, and was itself supplanted by the more modern and cleaner Club Baths (still there).

AIDS hit the clientele of the Club Z very hard. Throughout the Reagan years, it was incumbent upon gays to fend for themselves regarding AIDS, and the leader was the Gay Men's Health Crisis of NYC.
Early on, the GMHC put out a poster listing what specific sex practices were most likely to spread AIDS. Number one on the list was "finger fucking" as this was though to be the only way that the disease could pass both ways - absent some other factor. And of course fisting is finger fucking in the extreme and this practice was rampant at the Club Z. Of the hundreds I knew who died from AIDS, the fisters were the quickest to go.

John Crosby
Fremont

I'm not saying you have to work the quote into the story. That would be pretentious.

I'm saying, you can work the ideas of what you're reading and thinking about into the story. You had plenty of words to do just that w/out relying on a flare gun quote.

There's no need to cite what you're reading in the first place.

I like the epigrams, which give a feeling of the overall bathhouse culture, which was underplayed in the article. Hey Kerri -- if you think bathhouses are disgusting, don't go to one.

Good job, Frizzelle! Your article reads like:

"SNOW FALLING ON PETERS"


god forbid someone is reminded that writers read books and that things inside books have some kind of relevance in the world we live in.

the horror.

If pretension was a concern, you might rethink:

"This is the darkest thing I've ever written."

well, but, um, it IS the darkest thing I've ever written. It is. There's some dark stuff in there. Not everyone's going to have the stomach for it. It's fair warning.

...although if pretension is a concern of Mr. Savage, he may wish to rethink Mr. Mudede.

i HATE, HATE, HATE that awful Christopher Frizzelle article on Club
Z...it's too long and rambling and poorly written and it takes the Strangers usual point
of view that any gay sex that's not in a monogamous relationship is
bad, evil sex...Frizzelle also found it offensive to view
'attractive' gay men having sex with unattractive gay men and
basically called it pity sex...and what a Japanese internment camp
victim has to do with gay bathhouses, i really couldn't say...and did we really need all those paragraphs on the research that went into the article? AWFUL,
AWFUL, AWFUL...

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