Slog - Comments on The Weapons http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons At the SPD's press conference this morning, CSI Detective Don Ledbetter uncovered several of the weapons found in Kyle Huff's pickup truck after Saturday morning's shooting. They included: A 12-gauge Winchester Defender shotgun- not the actual murder weapon but an identical "exemplar" shotgun (the murder weapon is still undergoing forensic analysis; also visible in the photo are ammunition, a machete, and a baseball bat that were all found in the pickup): A Bushmaster XM 15-E2S semiautomatic rifle with 30-round capacity, found on the floor of the truck, surrounded in this photo by three 30-round box magazines: The pickup also contained... Copyright 2007 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 12:46:20 -0800 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:38:10 -0800 http://www.movabletype.org/?v=3.34 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Comment by * Pro gun lobby will assure you that those are all used for hunting.

Hunters will tell you that if you use those guns to hunt with you will have very little meat to bring home as it will be splattered all over the forest.

]]> * http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055644 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055644 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 12:45:25 -0800 Comment by fnarf The clerk at GI Joe's in Northgate, when asked by the Times, said of the shotgun: "Are those legal? We don't carry that kind of thing; hunters don't want them."

]]> fnarf http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055657 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055657 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 12:50:37 -0800 Comment by * Baseball bats are only used at little league games, machetes are only used to clear jungle brush.

]]> * http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055676 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055676 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 12:58:27 -0800 Comment by in.praxis I just came across something very creepy.

http://books.dreambook.com/groovinkim/seattleraves.html

See the second entry.

*shudders*

]]> in.praxis http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055685 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055685 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:02:27 -0800 Comment by E. Actually, the pro-gun lobby, as well as the gun manufacturer, will tell you that such pistol-grip shotguns are for home defense. Which, from a purely technical point-of-view, they excel at: you don't need a steady aim, you won't accidentally penetrate an interior wall, and whomever you hit is unlikely to return fire.

The reasonable question is, are we safer banning guns than we are by maintaining the right to own them?

]]> E. http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055689 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055689 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:02:56 -0800 Comment by fnarf Oh, dear, oh, dear. "kylehuff23@hotmail.com" wants to know about upcoming raves in Seattle. February 1st, 2006. Looks real. You should tell the cops. I hope they can get into his email account.

]]> fnarf http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055691 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055691 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:05:46 -0800 Comment by wf what morally upright citizen needs a semi-automatic weapon or a 12 guage pistil grip shotgun? total prohibition of such weapons is the answer. no more equivocating about mental health tests and criminal background checks for weapons meant only to kill lots of people quickly.

also: is it legal to own a grenade in this country as well? amazing.

]]> wf http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055692 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055692 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:06:00 -0800 Comment by glancer Whoa IP, that is *really* creepy!

]]> glancer http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055696 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055696 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:06:36 -0800 Comment by E. Hand grenades are not legal; there is no plausible self-defense scenario for them. (Who ever heard of the Pro-grenade lobby, anyway? Let's not be silly.)

]]> E. http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055702 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055702 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:08:45 -0800 Comment by fnarf I love the "home defense" excuse. They're not used for home defense; they're used for home assaults. It's an arms race, and it's just as stupid as the nuclear one. Except the nukes aren't being wielded by shitheads who think they're in The Matrix.

]]> fnarf http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055705 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055705 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:09:26 -0800 Comment by in.praxis I think the police confiscated his computer. I'm sure they will get in there.

Ugh ugh ugh.

]]> in.praxis http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055707 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055707 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:10:06 -0800 Comment by E. Holy crap - that guestbook entry is real. Google's crawler cached it on February 19th, 2006:

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:hiXQqVDmsKwJ:books.dreambook.com/groovinkim/seattleraves.html+kylehuff23&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1

]]> E. http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055709 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055709 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:10:34 -0800 Comment by fnarf There is a pro-grenade lobby. It's called the NRA. Gun nuts abide by absolutely no restrictions on private ownership of armaments at all.

]]> fnarf http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055710 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055710 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:10:35 -0800 Comment by fnarf If he didn't allow his browswer to save his hotmail password for him, or write it down somewhere, they won't be able to get in without a subpoena. Without a criminal case to bring they may have trouble getting one. You can't prosecute the dead.

]]> fnarf http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055717 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055717 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:12:36 -0800 Comment by E. Fnarf, banning guns definitely makes you safer if you don't own a gun yourself, and if you live in a well-policed area.

But I wonder if banning guns would work out any better than banning, say, LSD and ecstasy.

And if prohibition doesn't work, then I wonder if banning guns makes me safer than just going out and buying one. (Which, by the way, I've never done, but am considering, at least for the sake of examining all options.)

For the record, I don't think I live in the Matrix. I think I live in Seattle, where wierd shit like this remains extremely improbable -- even now.

]]> E. http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055726 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055726 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:19:00 -0800 Comment by in.praxis I guess this lends some currency to the theory that the kids/the scene was targeted.

]]> in.praxis http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055733 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055733 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:22:48 -0800 Comment by fnarf Banning murder doesn't work, either; people still get murdered. Should murder be legalized?

]]> fnarf http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055736 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055736 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:24:32 -0800 Comment by anthony E,. I disagree. Banning guns makes you safer, period. No ifs.

]]> anthony http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055738 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055738 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:24:47 -0800 Comment by in.praxis I don't think they have to plan to bring it to trial in order to get the subpoena - this is still very much a criminal investigation.

]]> in.praxis http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055740 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055740 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:25:03 -0800 Comment by angry Look at profiles # 5 & 6. It seems he may have had and deleted a myspace account. Looks like his truck.

http://search.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=find.search&searchType=network&interesttype=&country=&searchBy=First&f_first_name=aaron+huff&Submit=Find

]]> angry http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055744 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055744 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:28:22 -0800 Comment by angry Look at profiles # 5 & 6. It seems he may have had and deleted a myspace account. Looks like his truck.

http://search.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=find.search&searchType=network&interesttype=&country=&searchBy=First&f_first_name=aaron+huff&Submit=Find

]]> angry http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055745 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055745 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:28:27 -0800 Comment by glancer Right age and name Angry, but these are both for leos and the guy with the truck is married.

]]> glancer http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055763 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055763 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:40:51 -0800 Comment by fnarf I don't see any truck.

]]> fnarf http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055764 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055764 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:41:53 -0800 Comment by E. Fnarf: go back and re-read your posting and ask yourself, slowly and in one-syllable words, whether there is a moral distinction between murder and self-defense.

]]> E. http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055766 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055766 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:42:17 -0800 Comment by david Once again most of you are showing your ignorance on the topic of firearms, let me clear up a few things for ya. Hand grenades are already illegal, automatic weapons are already illegal, the Bushmaster rilfe in question here is in fact often used as an excellent small game rifle, it is however illegal to hunt deer sized game with in many states as it is UNDERPOWERED to humanely do so, it fires a .223 caliber varmint hunting round. Any questions?

]]> david http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055773 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055773 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:45:05 -0800 Comment by gt_mule Anthony said "Banning guns makes you safer, period. No ifs."

Yes Anthony, you're right. Just ask the Jews who were banned from businesses involving firearms in Germany in 1938. It certainly made them safer.

You think the NRA is on the leading edge of gun rights? Think again. They're just a bunch of softies compared to the Jews for The Preservation of Firearms Ownership (http://www.jpfo.org/).

]]> gt_mule http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055778 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055778 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:46:06 -0800 Comment by angry The profile of #6 from the top can't be clicked on because it's been deleted, but you can see a swm w/sunglasses in front of what looks like a black truck/suv. I don't see where it says he's a leo or married, I just thought it might be him. It's wierd that he's listed under aaron huff as opposed to kyle, but so is the deleted account.

]]> angry http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055782 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055782 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:48:48 -0800 Comment by glancer Not that this matters, but just so this guy doesn't get hate mail from random internet users:

You can click on his (profile #6-- don't click on the pic, click on the name) name and access his profile. You can even see other pictures of him, including one with his wife. Not the same guy.

]]> glancer http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055804 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055804 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:58:46 -0800 Comment by fnarf GT_MULE: please do bring Hitler into the conversation, it's always so illuminating.

E: You seem to believe that owning a gun has something to do with self-defense. I don't think it does. I think it makes you a danger to the public.

]]> fnarf http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055811 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055811 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:04:42 -0800 Comment by socialunravelin If you knew anything, you would know that the NRA are a bunch of pushovers who only endorse hunter's rights. I think you're dangerous to the public, as a misinformed, idiotic citizen.

]]> socialunravelin http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055814 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055814 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:06:40 -0800 Comment by fnarf Keep talking, kooks. You're making my argument for me.

]]> fnarf http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055819 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055819 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:09:13 -0800 Comment by socialunravelin And frankly Fnarf, the Jews have been the target of genocide and conquest for thousands of years. That's the reason why being Jewish is traced matrilineally and why they decided to form an organization to preserve their right to self-defense. The argument of radical evil is important because it has existed before and can exist again.

]]> socialunravelin http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055826 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055826 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:12:36 -0800 Comment by fnarf Yes, and so does casual unthinking myth-driven cowboy evil. Like you.

Come on, boy. Bring it. Waco, Ruby Ridge, Oklahoma City. You know you want to.

]]> fnarf http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055834 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055834 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:15:54 -0800 Comment by ANGRY My mistake, I was wrong, but I swear yesterday it was deleted. I only had the small picture, age, and shiny black truck to go on. I hope noone else has made the same mistake.

]]> ANGRY http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055857 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055857 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:27:54 -0800 Comment by socialunravelin You aren't even arguing, you're baiting and name-calling with no evidence to back yourself up.

And for the record, Oklahoma City was a terrible tragedy.

]]> socialunravelin http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055863 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055863 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:29:31 -0800 Comment by socialunravelin OKC was also done using legal totally legal shit: gasoline, fertilizer, and a Ryder truck.

]]> socialunravelin http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055865 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055865 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:30:43 -0800 Comment by Mizez Slocombe Hello from Paris.

Senseless bullshit like that spewing from the pro-gun nuts are why I broke up with America.

Some people have said Huff could have been stopped if someone else could have had a gun. I say the bloodbath could have been worse.

Banning guns and the banning illicit substances that have the potentia are an Apple/Orange comparison. As Dan said in an earlier comment, the gun control laws truly do work in Europe and Japan. The proof is in the pudding: 50-60 dead in the 1992 LA riots, and 1 dead in the Paris riots last October.

]]> Mizez Slocombe http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055875 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c055875 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:34:43 -0800 Comment by herethere perhaps one more senseless tragedy may be what it takes to get the deed done (or at least started). gun control is not impossible, but let's face it... there's more than a lot of work to be done to achieve any semblance. unfortunately, the pro gun advocates have the upper hand on this debate, so really it's not enough to whine on a message board that you hate the thought of all those nasty weapons waiting for anyone who has a couple of hundred bucks, knows where to steal one, has one or is stockpiling them... I'm for gun control but, hey, we live in AMERICA - with a track record a gazillion miles long for insanity and lots of available weapons to play out our sickest fantasies. Why do I say ours? - because it is... we own it and unless you're doing something to better the overall situation - whether it's spreading love or convincing the powers that be to wake up and do the right thing, whether you own a gun or not makes little difference.

]]> herethere http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c056014 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c056014 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:43:28 -0800 Comment by Gomez At this point, Fnarf, you're clearly just being a flamebaiting asshole. You're not even trying to make valid arguments at this point, just saying whatever you think will piss as many people off.

You can either calm down and be civil or one by one, the people here will start tuning you out.

]]> Gomez http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c056042 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c056042 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:58:06 -0800 Comment by fnarf Right, Gomer. The Slog is invaded by a bunch of gun nut sock puppets from Cloud Cuckoo Land, and I'm the asshole. You want me to be civil to Mr. TAke Up Arms Against The Government, and Ms. Black Helicopters, and Mr. Stop The Durn Negroes, and Mr. Bush Is The Same As Hitler, and Mr. Stockpiling Arms For Freedom, and Ms. What We Need Is More Shooting, Not Less.

Not going to do it.

If you've got something interesting or valuable to say, say it, and I'll argue in a civil fashion. But a bunch of goons slavering over their weaponry? No, I'm not going to respect that, any more than they're going to respect the grieving people of this city.

I'm not talking about gun control. I'm talking about human decency. Gun nuts don't have any. It's as simple as that.

]]> fnarf http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c056096 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c056096 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 16:20:09 -0800 Comment by Gomez And you simply prove my point further with every post. Carry on.

]]> Gomez http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c056217 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c056217 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:17:18 -0800 Comment by Brian You can either calm down and be civil or one by one, the people here will start tuning you out.

Start tuning him out? I'm way ahead of you there ...

]]> Brian http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c056227 http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/03/the_weapons#c056227 Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:38:10 -0800