Slog - The Stranger's Blog

Line Out

The Music Blog

« KUOW Broadcasted Our Debate | Bad Transportation News, Part ... »

Wednesday, March 8, 2006

Roe vs Wade… for men!

Posted by on March 8 at 15:49 PM

The National Center for Men is filing a lawsuit tomorrow on behalf of a young man who doesn’t want to pay child support for his “ex-girlfriend’s daughter”. This article (via Raw Story) raises some interesting points about men’s reproductive rights.

As the men’s center sees it:

If a pregnant woman can choose among abortion, adoption or raising a child, a man involved in an unintended pregnancy should have the choice of declining the financial responsibilities of fatherhood.

But women’s rights are currently under fire. It’s kind of an inopportune time to be fighting for men’s rights.

“Roe says a woman can choose to have intimacy and still have control over subsequent consequences,” [said Mel Feit, director of The National Center for Men.] “No one has ever asked a federal court if that means men should have some similar say.”

“The problem is this is so politically incorrect,” Feit added. “The public is still dealing with the pre-Roe ethic when it comes to men, that if a man fathers a child, he should accept responsibility.”

Feit doesn’t advocate an unlimited fatherhood opt-out; he proposes a brief period in which a man, after learning of an unintended pregnancy, could decline parental responsibilities if the relationship was one in which neither partner had desired a child.

I fully support men having more control in the baby-making process (it’d be great if male birth control would hit mass markets), but it’s a little alarming that women’s choice is being constricted, while some men are fighting for the right to walk away.

CommentsRSS icon

Why is that alarming? They seem to go hand in hand.

It is interesting to watch the evolution of reproductive rights.

I think it is a valid point - a couple agrees on birth control - the woman quits taking them, get knocked up, it is her choice. Hubby is stuck with child support for 18 years.

Not married, even worse. Male is always perceived as the agressor. Medieval sense of female sexuality, but in the end, the woman holds all the aces.

I am glad I am gay. I pity straight guys and what they have to endure for a little pussy.

Vaginas as currency. Old, new - beware.

Mass market bith control ----

HELLO, called the condom. easy to carry around. Low cost, can be reused if careful, and NO chemicals loaded into an already too many chemical enviro.

Very effective if combined with some know how about menstrual periods and fertility.

Teen age boys love them - improves star power self image.

Or get a damn vasectomy already.

I beleive that if a man is not pro choice and chooses to have sex with a woman without using birth control and she becomes pregnant -- he should be 1) have to pay child support and extra taxes for the rest of his life, 2) he should have to do 5 years of community service in a woman's shelter and / or 3) he should go to prison.

If he is pro choice and uses birth control then he did his best and should not be held responsible if the gal has the baby.

Men already do have the option of walking away. They don't have to have anything to do with the kid. They only have to send a check. I agree that there are women out there who will get pregnant to try to force their boyfriends to stay with them. Incredibly stupid. However, by allowing men to opt out of child support, it's really the child who's punished. The kid's going to have enough problems being raised by a nitwit.

The Bible says in Galations 6:7 "Be not deceived: for whatsoever that a man soweth, that shall he also reap" This is the truth. Anything done in your life whether it be good or bad has a consequence. If you have sex then you run the risk of a STD or having a baby. If you knowingly have sex with somebody with or without birth control/condoms and a baby happens to fall into the mix of things then people need to suck it up and accept responsibility. Abortion is not birth control. Men already have things so easy. Women carry the baby, birth the baby, and most likely get the joy of raising the baby. Men get to spread their seed to everybody and then walk away. Maybe have to send some money in the mail to pay for some kids but that is so much easier. If we allow men to be able to ignore their responsibilities, then we are enabling the next generation of men to be dead beat fathers and slackers.

It takes two to make a child. Can you imagine what the consequence's will be if this man is allowed to have a "Choice" to walk away from his responsibilities financial or otherwise? Millions of Dead-beat fathers out there will demand to be let out of their financial/paternal responsibilities, if this man wins his case. This woman chose life instead of abortion, this was her body and she now has the awsome responsibility of a lifetime responsiblity of a child-alone. I don't want to hear about male equality. Women are still not making the same dollar as a man does for the same job.

Sex is consensual (obviously not including rape) but women have 100% of the choice in having a baby. There's abortion and there's adoption. If a woman keeps a baby that the man does not want, then obviously she's getting all kinds of joy and whatever other benefits from having the baby. If a man doesn't want the baby and is not involved with the woman, she has 100% of the choice and 100% of the joy.

If you're saying a man should pay for a woman's choice that makes her happy just because she had sex with him, you're saying 1) women don't enjoy sex 2) women need the support of a man to be happy 3) women can't support themselves 4) women can't be accountable for their own decisions. That's bullshit.

Wow! Equal rights for men? Right now there are men who do not support their own progeny, they donate their sperm at a sperm bank. Maybe the banks should be closed down since we do not want men to walk away without supporting their progeny. Child support is all about money. No man ever went to prison for not seeing his child, only for not paying child support.
Greater freedom that women have should come with greater responsiblity.

Given the lack of partenting skills in many modern women, they should be forced to get their tubes tied.

Gret bith control, no burdens foised on hem by male miscreants, and so forth.

The most stupid iea out there is that women must give birth. Worse than medieval in an over populated planet.

Get em tied. Great idea.

This is to Vinny... This is America man and you can't force a woman to do squat. For one, if you want to post something then please learn how to spell... If you think this earth is over populated then maybe your mother shouldn't have had you. That would've been one less idiot. I agree about the lack of parenting skills because obviously, reading what you said, it showed that both of your parents lacked any skills because they have raised an ignorant son to have even more ignorant beliefs. I think you need to crawl in a hole somewhere and hope that your ignorance fades away. One of a woman's main purposes on earth is to give birth. Taking that back to the bible. Also, no woman begs a man to ejaculate inside of her with no condom. If a man can make a baby then he can raise a baby. I sure hope you don't have a lady friend. If you do then I want to talk to her so I can tell her to run. You are trying to get that control back over women that would set us back 500 years... Think before you speak dummy.

Mandi, now that you mention the Bible, there is a story there about a couple of sisters that were so desperate to have babies, they got their father drunk, had sex, and had babies.
Some men want to help raise their children, maybe they are divorced or never married the mother. Court says send tax free money to mom and visit(not parent) one or two days a month. Mom can even find another man to move in with her and therefore get paychecks of 2 men. Women have come a long way in America.

Matias, I applaud men that are willing to accept responsibility. I really do. Women do sometimes try to trap men by getting pregnant. It has happened so many times but women who "accidentally" got pregnant should not have to suffer. Women have came along way but to try to take child bearing from a woman by believing that women should all have their tubes tied is taking away something from us that is really only truly ours. I am a single mother. I didn't try to trap the guy by getting pregnant. It is something that we both knew could happen and it did happen. I raise my daughter on my own and I do nooooooot need any man to help me financially but I believe that if a man makes a baby that it is his responsibility to help take care of the child he helped create. I would rather my child's father come see her than send her money to appease me. Alot of women get pregnant for state money, child support, entrapment, etc. In this court case, I side with the man to a certain extent. The story sounds as if he fell into a trap but at the same time, regardless of what she said about being infertile and being on birth control, he should've still strapped up and taken proper precautions on his own behalf. Nobody wants to lose the feeling that a condom takes away but if you don't want kids then protect yourself. Get a vasectomy, use a condom, or just restrain. By the man saying that the woman should've had an abortion is wrong. You cannot make somebody choose something like that because it is their own body. Abortion is now the way out but just an alternative. Men, before they lay down to be with a woman, should consider the risk factor of the action. Guys need to be held accountable for the choices they make. If this man in the case doesn't want the child then he just needs to terminate his parental rights and go about his business.

Tracy, that statement about women not earning as much as men, that is one of those statistics that needs investigation. My uncle, with a primary education made more money than most better educated women because he was a construction worker. Injured many times. He even had the pleasure of pulling a co-worker off of a piece of re-bar that impaled him when he fell from a building. My uncle never whined about how hard it is to be a man. You should learn from his example. Do not whine about being a woman, i.e. pregnancy is terrible. Women outlive men, but the difference is reducing now that more women work.

"Also, no woman begs a man to ejaculate inside of her with no condom."
You've obviously never fucked a woman.

"One of a woman's main purposes on earth is to give birth. Taking that back to the bible."
Yeah Mandi, the Bible says a lot of shit. I suppose you endorse slavery, public stoning, and polygamy too.


Will spell better just for you.

My parents are wonderful. I am not an idiot. But you might be.

Go back to the 15the century - or to the days of the Bible. 1 baby in 5 lived to be an adult. And adults died at 35.

Mother Biology was smart. Keep them pregant and maybe the species will survive.

THIS is no longer true. No woman need to have babies.
Choice only.

And you can have plenty of kids around you if you wish and not breed them.

21st century - all choice for men and women.

And if it is such a joy - why are those moms killing their kids so often?

Beating and starving them?

All you know is what some precher males tell you. Get a grip, women are no longer just baby ovens.

Maitas-I worked worked for 10 1/2 years for a company, got pregnant (planned) came back, my work place was made to feel so hostile because I took family leave time. I was told I wasn't worth the money I was paid (or any women)because of how convenient we (women) get it, when we go off to have babies. Are you kidding? I also found out that a male co-worker was making more money that I was and I worked 5 years longer than HE did, and have the same education and I had more work experience! I still don't want to hear shit about male equality.

Women have it so good, and it is sickening. I'm tired of women having the advantage in every aspect of life. They can support themselves, have great lives, and never face this situation. They have options when it comes to the birth of a child. Women have gotten their rights, but it's a problem for a man to even mention how he's being treated unfairly. Women don't have to die in the military. They don't have to register for the selective service. I'd like to meet women who pay for first dates. I'd like to meet women who'll give what they expect to receive from men i.e. diamonds, cars, flowers, bills paid, and other benefits from being a women. I'd like for women to have to pay to get in a nightclub. I'd like for women to give up their seats for men. American women are some of the most vicious, inhumane, nasty, bitter, selfish, and self centered creatures on the planet. I'm glad that men are getting smart and standing up for their rights because the women shouldn't be able to have it both ways. I hope this guy wins this case so that men will be free to choose fatherhood, and not have servitude placed upon them. It's a simple argument, women have choices after conception; men should have choices too.

People do all kinds of things to each other, murder, assault, theft, etc. None of these things are legal, including what happened to you. You did not have the balls to persue a legal remedy.
If female gets pregnant, the personal choice (either way) is none of males business. If a child is born, then we pay for some one elses personal choice in child support(tax free money to her). If we happened to want the child, but, are not living with the mother, courts can give joint custody, which means nothing if you get one or two days a month, whatever the courts claim is in the best interest of child. Women can even move away and take the child with the courts blessing(in the best interest of the child?).
I personally feel raising kids is one or the great jobs and men are an important part of a childs life whether we live with mom or not. The lawsuit, Roe vs Wade for Men, is really about when, from conception, child birth, and beyond, are males going to be given some kind of equality under the law. California will have an initiative to make equal joint physical custody the law. Who knows if it will pass. Maybe society is not ready for real equality. I resent the idea that I am disposable in my childs life but that only my money is important.

Mandi, one of the things you said was that its so hard to be a woman, carrying baby etc. If all that is so hard how come an insurance company actuary table shows that on average women outlive men by 5 years? There may be discomfort at times, it is far riskier to be a man.

I have a question!! Let's say that the pregnant woman wants to abort but her boyfriend wants to have the baby and raise it himself!! Does he or any man have that right or that choice?????? I am sure there are a few men out there who hated to see his preganant partner abort!!!! Please answer--has any man had this happen to him???

Wow, several of you guys are really generalizing about women! Not all women are out to trick you into impregnating them so they can get your money and live on easy street. Personally if I didn't have kids I could make more than what my ex contributes in child support. My ex and I BOTH agreed to my pregnancies during our marraige and he did not want custody after the divorce. There was no trickery here and he doesn't want to pay child support either.

Ulitmately there is no absolute equality in this. What your proposing is the man get to walk away leaving the woman to agonize over 1)ending the life of the child - which she may find morally offensive 2)carry the child and give birth (and suck up the cost of missing work while recovering), then hand the child she carried for 9 months over to someone else 3) Raise the kid solo.

Getting an abortion is very traumatic and most women who give a child up for adoption spend the rest of their lives wondering about him/her. A man will never have to experience an abortion or carry a child and give it up. Women will never get to say "Not my problem" and walk away.

I find this whole discussion rediculous. Men have the same rights as women...they have the right to lay down and have sex AND to abstain. The bible says that sex should be shared between a HUSBAND AND WIFE!! Men are just as educated in school and elsewhere on the consequences of sex. Sex makes babies...duh!! and our misuse of sex spreads disease. Women are not excluded from this. Shut your damn legs already and all should keep our bodies holy and pure. Sin is fun for a while but then leads to pain and DEATH!! Both sides are responsible. I DO NOT believe that abortion should be an option. If you're dumb enough to abuse your bodies in such away, then you are responsible for the consequences of your actions. The answer is very very simple. Go back to God and the teachings that the Lord has given us. There is a reason there are the ten commandments and this is one of them. You make the choice to sin...suck it up and let this be a lesson to you.

I don't think women care for birthing children at all for the sake of life. They just want to increase their portfolios bottom line. Where I live, gay women trick men into having children all the time diquised as casual sex with a straight woman. The man finds out later that the woman's so-called birth control didn't work with this particular man and now he is a father against his will and faced with child-support, lose of livlihood, and prison time over some bimbo. The so-called mothers use the money to take care of their lesbian lover, by designer clothes, expensive cars and receive public assistance, while the men get nothing but grief.

I think a woman that has a baby against a man's will to be a father should be faced with heavy fines and/or jail time. Thank goodness for Matt Dubey and the attorney that is defending him.

After all, if women are so tough and independent as they fake to be then why are they after the man's money and not his love. I'll tell you why because it was never about love, only the money.

Now men will realize why rappers call women tricks.

Like I said...Men choose to lay down with women or not to...I don't feel sorry for him in the least...You do the the time.

And men think they're so smart!! hahaha

I don't get it...have people not learned at all over the years. Are we still so stupid!! Why do men have the gaul to sit there and say I am innocent when they only think with their dicks. You see a beautiful woman, she takes you home or vice versa and your pecker is up ready to go without a second thought. Get over yourself. Sperm could not get up there otherwise. I don't see the problem here except a stupid society who wants to pin blame everywhere else. Look in the damn mirror already and start facing the music. Women tricking men?? Are men so convoluted? Walk away and go jerk off next time a woman propositions you then. Hold off till you meet the right person and get married. It's their own fault for letting a puny little body member think for them. Get a grip.

Most people use the same silly arguments, you will here in favor of women that men have the choice to were a condom, get snipped, or not have sex at all. Arguments in favor of men are basically the same, women should use contraceptives, get there tubes, or keep there legs closed. These arguments on choices before sex ultimately cancel each other out. The prevailing argument should be based on equal choice/equal rights for men and women 50/50, this is the only fair conclusion regardless of your moral beliefs. If the argument is, a man and women should both be equally held responsible for the choice to have sex, a mans rights should not stop at the moment a woman is believed to be pregnant, currently he is no longer equal in choice just responsibility, and this poses a problem in the fairness of law. You can not penalize his right to choice and not hers regardless of any moral issue you may have. If the man chooses not to particpate in any involvement in pregnancy and there after, the woman still has the very same choices to make with or without is participation, if she decides to bring another life in this world knowing the mans descision not to participate that is her right to choice. By the way, I am a married with two kids who has been there every step of the way for my children, but I still defend equal right without bias, that is only fair.

I also believe once the man has made the descision to participate in any way of the pregnancy and there after, he has given up his right change his mind and should be held accountable at that point.

I'm not saying that a woman's right is over and above a man's right for the choice of whether or not to participate or be held responsible for a child's welfare and well-being. I'm saying that a child's welfare and well-being should be held over and above any right of the bearer. I am Pro-life all the way. Screw equal rights. Neither should have a right to destroy or condemn a child outside of a life being threatened by the pregnancy. There are OBVIOUS possible consequences to our actions and anyone who has half a brain knows that. There are commandments set in place for those OBVIOUS reasons. If we throw those out then we're saying God was stupid and didn't know what he was talking about. Who in this world knows more than God. If we are to stand before God and be judged based on those Commandments, will we be found guilty or innocent? I say guilty!! Who will be the innocent inheritors of heaven? All those innocent children we killed who will be standing next to God on our judgement day rightfully pointing the finger at the parents and doctors that killed them in this atrocious holocaust. We are the ones who aren't worthy to share in this extraordinary existence that God has blessed us with. We dare deny the innocent who can perhaps do wonderful things for this earth or can perhaps continue to destroy it, but have the choice none-the-less to become God's chosen. To experience for themselves the joys in life we take for granted. We are truly a selfish people whose judgement is waiting just because we value our sinful pleasures more than God's love and grace and redemption. Jesus said "Let the children come to me." Was he saying "Kill the children so they will come to me in heaven?" By no means. He blessed the children. He said unless our faith is like that of a little a child, surely we will not enter the kingdom of heaven. We can learn a lot from a little child. Bless them and we will be blessed. Don't tell me that you haven't felt blessed by the little miracles that came into your life? Let that be an example to all those women who are missing out. It can change your life. It sure changed mine. My little boy is the one that I live for. I could not imagine my life without him.

If the argument is neither man or woman have the right to abort, this would be a valid. If your argument is equal rights in descision making for both man and this would be valid. What is not valid is the current balance in favor of womens choice not mans(what is fair is fair so lets be fair)

OK...let's say for arguments sake that man is given the right to choose whether or not he will or will not support a child he helped to create. What can of worms do you think that's gonna open. It's bad enough that almost every state allows abortion. How many more abortions will now be executed cause there's a chance that a woman who would normally do the right thing to keep the child is now wholly responsible for the care and upbringing of a child cause the father (who is just as responsible for the producing of the child) now can walk away scott free with no repercussion, or she can have an abortion because she's afraid of not being able to provide for the child. What happened to virtue and integrity? Doing the right thing because it's the right thing to do. So do two wrongs make a right? Or should I say three? We keep putting wrong on top of wrong on top of wrong to make up for our mistakes, but look at what it's doing to our society? Our morals keep going further and further down the drain. Where does it end?

So let's persecute the woman who's in favour of preserving life

I feel that men obviously know the consequences when they are going to have sex. Therefore if they are willing to chance it then they must be willing to be financially responsible if something goes wrong. If men can opt out of being responsible for their children then all chaos will break loose because men will be more willing to have sex without protection which can therefore endanger their partner. Also if with the election of Judge Samuel Alito allows for the 1973 Roe vs. Wade to be overturned then all of these women will be having children which they will be solely financially responsible for.

Well it is true you have women who come from lower class families who obviously have sex with morons to make babies for the monetary gains they are pretty sure they can get from it.

A man should have the right to let the woman know that they are not ready to have a child and that any child that results "accidentally" is either terminated, or the women may keep it but bear the responsibility.

He flat out told the bitch he did not want a child and yet she was cold enough to not only have the child but sit stone faced in court while the system legally fleeced his ass for 18 years.

Religious arguements are bullshit.
Pro-life is usually bullshit.

If I want to have casual sex with a woman and I let her know that we both have to use full protection and a baby happens I should be able to say I wont let you ruin my life or the childs potential life.

Either abort or face the challenge of raising the child ALONE.

Because bitch I done told ya.

Just watch how fast these women stop opening their legs to every tom dick and hairy.

Karen, women obviously know the consequences also, so your argument SHOULD apply to both men and women, not just men, in other words if the man is being held equally responsible he should also have equal descision making. If the woman goes against his choice to have a child, he should be held accountable because if she decides to abort against a mans choice to keep the child, she is not held accountable. YOU CANT HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT TO.

Like it or not, Roe vs Wade has given men a strong valid argument. I also believe this argument will be ruled in mens favor. The only other option I see is to turn over Roe vs Wade which is a another monster altogether, If the courts are not willing to do that, this could be groundbreaking.

Like I said...Men choose to lay down with women or not to...I don't feel sorry for him in the least...You do the the time.

And men think they're so smart!! hahaha

This is exactly the type of idiotic bitch that poor man is fighting against.

The very attitude he is trying to smash.

Morons will be morons but intelligent men are standing up for their rights and it is about time.

Most men will be able to choose now to let the woman know beforehand what could happen.

Men can then also choose to support the child if it is their wish.

The main arguement of the courts and their biased decisions is usually pro-life or religious reasons.

BULLSHIT wake up and smell the reality of the universe you twits.

To clarify my post. If a woman goes against mans choice not to have the child, the man will be held accountable for her descision to have child. If the woman goes against the mans descision to have child and chooses to abort, the woman is not held accountable. Logically this can not be considered fair will be difficult for a judge in womens favor.

This arguement is rendered moot if a man trys to shirk responsibility for a child he conscented to having and in that case by all means he needs to pay up those dividends.

Since in that case it is really his own fault for leaving the woman and the child and I have no respect for that kind of deadbeat.

Pre-conception choices for men and women are equal. Either can choose to have unprotected sex or not. Either can choose to use temporary birth control or not. Either can choose sterilization or not.

Post-conception choices for men and women are completely unequal. If the woman chooses to have the baby, the man will be a father whether he chooses to or not and regardless of any verbal agreements they may have had prior to conception. The woman can choose fatherhood for him.

If the woman chooses to abort the baby, the man will not be a father whether he desires to be or not, regardless of any verbal agreements they may have had prior to conception. The woman can choose to kill his child. Yes yes, you may feel that whether it is a child or not is a legal definition in flux, but for many men, an abortion feels no less like "killing their child".

Heck, a woman can carry the baby to term, show the father and then disappear or, in some states, drop the baby off at the nearest hospital and sign away her parental responsibilities. Where is the 'equal protection under the law' equivilant for men? That is the question this lawsuit seeks to ask.

Even if these men win this case the problem remains in the details of every couples situation for example:

When a woman takes a man to court for child support and he had informed her that he invoked his new rights how will they prove this in court.

Not saying all women will lie about it but greedy bitches will try to and therein will lie the real issue if this case suceeds.

My answer is dont assosiate with a woman who wont respect your new found rights in the relationship and one of two things will happen.

She will agree to a simple recorded verbal or written agreement.

Or you wont be getting any pussy from her EVER lol

A mans consent to a child can be proven by any records of proof he has been providing support for that child. The same as they get him for not being able to provide any record of proof. This will cancel out any women having a child and not telling the man until 3 years later and taking him to court saying who knew and consented. The burden of proof would then be hers to prove he knew and provided support.

I am all for equal rights here. The situation is simple.

1. No one is forcing abortion. First get that out of the way( for you pro-lifers)
2. Both agreed to not to have a child after sex.
3. But, she did. And, kept the baby when she could of given away the baby. Breaking the agreement.
4. It's her responsibility if she want to keep the child for herself. Why dose he have to pay for her luxury when it made clear to her that HE DID NOT WANT A BABY FROM THE BEGINNING ( basically to her to keep the baby)

my final comment:

If the woman respects and likes you enough she will have no problem doing this for both your sakes.

If she is a lazy kniving self serving hobag she will just have to find some other unsuspecting sucker to dupe.

Have you ever watched a woman tear your life apart with bipolarity. I am a teacher who makes a good living! I pay my maintenance for my children. I have raised my son since my first marriage broke up without asking for any help from his mother in terms of maintenance. My second relationship was extremely rocky because of her bipolar tendencies. We got pregnant and I was forced to stay in this relationship to protect my unborn child. I have been dragged into court over allegations of abuse, trying to stop my girlfriend from punching herself in the stomach trying to injure our child in utero. Is this fair to myself. Now 3 years later after 2 futile years of court for these allegation I now can't afford a lawyer to get my daughter out of this situation. I do not qualify for legal aid b/c of my salary. nOw if there was any situation where I could have avoided this predicament or was even given the option of raising my 2nd child alone I would do it. Thanks to the court system in Alberta I can not afford justice. Thanks

If all is equal a man should be able to make the woman have his child even if she wants to abort. He could father the child and make woman pay child support if she chooses not to participate.

In my life, I have been somewhere between lucky and careful for never having gotten a woman pregnant. In my youth, I was quite a bit more care-free and footloose. Having survived some precarious circumstances, I came to realize that it was up to me to be careful in choosing what women I took to my blissful bed.

Since that time I have taken the liberty to decide that if I could not stand to bear a child with this woman, I would not give her such pleasure to sway her so. consequently, it has spared me from spending my hard earned income on unwanted and unplanned children. I realize that there do exist those in the world who would stoop to such levels to procure my much loved money, both male and female.

However, having said all that, I do believe that men should have a reasonable right to deny fatherhood if forced into such a situation. If he, going into sexual activity has pre-emtively informed the girl that under no circumstances does he want to be a father, he should be exempt.

I myself am currently forging into dark territories. I find that I do care very much about my girlfriend but am in no way ready to bear children. I believe that my reaction to her getting pregnant would cause an adverse reaction to our relationship. I am not nor will I ever be ready for children and marriage. There is too much at stake with my personal freedom and rights.

I emphasize with Dubay's situation and hope that he can bring some freedom to men from under the subversive and opressive thumb of the school of "equal" thinking. There in no such thing as equality, only fairness.

We can only hope that men will be allowed such fairness when choosing whether or not to have a child, just like women.


Well yeah... and if she doesn't like that set up - then she should have kept her pants on in the first place. I mean, isn't that what the feminazi's have been telling us for years? You make an agreement with a woman - she decides to break it and rape you financially and emotionally - well you should have kept it in your pants.

If your only goal is to not have any kids and lots of casual sex, males should seek to be sterilized and so never be deceived by some female. The only logical reason not to get sterilized is that some day male may want to become a dad but not with current causal sex partner.
But no freedom comes free. Even without preganancy, casual sex comes with the cloud of STD that can be a huge nuisance, a burden for a lifetime or even fatal. If you get an STD, wasting time blaming causal female sex partner probably will not do you much good. Going to get medical assistance probably would do you some good.

Now kids, however they came into the world, need to be raised and nurtured. They are innocent beings. Wasting time, blaming some woman for a child comming into the world will not do anyone much good. Positive action will do good.
If male does not live with female, positive contribution means send tax free child support to female. Thats where things get out of control. Male made a money machine for someone else, when male contributing should be about nurturing the child. We males do have an obligation to child, but courts have to recognize, males have equal rights to raise child. We are not disposable! Equal joint physical custody should be the legal rule accross the USA.
Look what has happened to Gary of Alberta. Courts do not see him equal in his situation. The child belongs to mom. Mom is insane, maybe even a danger to child, he is the better parent. They will leave child with mom because of the legal bias in favor of moms.

ok final final comment^^:

I don't believe Dubay is going to win this case because the hipocrisy and bigotry in our legal system will favor the woman in these cases all the time.

He is set to be "shutout" yet again by the people who would rather keep things the way they are.

The reason that most women here and the PW Men seem to forget what this is about.It is not about equal rights, It is not about protection although women has 10 ways of protection compared to 2 for Men, It is not about who fault it is or the main thing that all of you want to say and that is Responsiblity, It is not about that. It is all about Money, and that problem is it doesn't matter it the man want the kid or not, it is the despencing of the money, If she get pregnate, why can't she go get a (JOB). We do, a married man does not spend 800 dollars on a kid in one month when he is there. What if the father took the baby to a hospital and said he don't want the kid? Like a woman can do.

Larry I think that you are right about the money. Both sides should have equal time with child. No money should ever be required to be passed between the couple. If you extrapalate the extreme you can see child support is about an easier and better life stile for mom.
I know a guy who got divorced that made lots of money. His ex-wife's last job was at a fastfood place. He has paid her $6000.00 a month since the kid was 3 years old. What 3 year old needs that much money? There is no accounting for how the money is spent.(tax free to her) She dresses well and drives a nice car and does not work.

Sometimes courts say that the kid should have the life style of dad. If that is what matters, why not give the kid to dad so he can have dad's lifestyle.

I want to reiterate, that however kids come into the world, we have a morale obligation to raise them. The kids come into this world completely innocent. Legally we should be treated as equal to women and have equal joint physical custody.

I have a solution to this problem.

Put a system in place where it is illegal to have children unless the parents are screened and tested.

Then start developing genetic engineering to make smarter humans.

200 years or so all the morons die out and voila problem solved.

slappynutz, if your upfront with any woman you're attracted to and just let her know that you think she's a bitch, your just out for pussy and don't really give a crap about her or the concequences you'll have little to worry about in terms of unplanned pregnancies.

Unfortunately many men still don't want equal time, but times are a-changing. I know men that are wonderful, positive participants in their childrens lives though and it would be such a loss for the kids if they were to lose that relationship. Courts should presume equal time unless either parent is proven to be unfit.

The bottom line is that there are good and bad in both genders. In court it will be one's word against the others in terms of verbal agreements. A pre-coitus agreement detailing what will happen in the event of a pregnancy should be drawn up, signed by each party (with legal councel) and filed with the courts prior to intercourse - by the time all that's done the hormones will have settled and you'll both have gone your separate ways anyway.

slappynutz, if your upfront with any woman you're attracted to and just let her know that you think she's a bitch, your just out for pussy and don't really give a crap about her or the concequences you'll have little to worry about in terms of unplanned pregnancies.

What is that supposed to mean?

Oh yeah I get it using pussy as a weapon or bargaining chip yet again.

Your saying that if a man tells a woman she is a bitch he wont get any pussy.

Tell us something we dont know lol.

Ideally we would have men and women who could control themselves long enough to make the right decisions.

Personally I am extremely careful in this department as in waiting for a woman who does not have the IQ of a dog in heat.

I mean I understand what you mean about the guys who will do anything to have sex and then care less about woman afterwards.

See it happen quite often these days and the current attitude of alot of guys in that department is pure ignorance or stupidity.

Either way it takes two to tango and all you can do is make sure your partner is hopefully on your level mentally and physically and let other people have all the unprotected sex, and unwated pregnancies they want.

Maybe it is a lack of education that causes so many accidents.

I highly doubt it since you have far to many idiots who would ignore it anyways.

Dear Slappy,

1.You are really working hard to get people to ignore your comments. Spend some time in history class and turn to the chapter on Nazi Germany. Those nice people were the last to really make an effort at genetic engineering. You put yourself in their camp.

2.Breeding is a young persons game for the most part. Young people are not going to have as good judgement compared to older types because a lack of life experience. Plus, nature gives most young people hormonal levels to overcome the little good judgement the young may have.

3. American women are the most pampered beast on the planet. Practically every law favers them over us males.

4. Everyone should be accountable for their own actions. If you have sex and you end up with a child, that philosophy will make you come to the conclusion that we males are 50% responsible for the time and money it takes to raise said child. I say 50% because we live in a time of "equal" rights.

5. The lawsuit, that started this web page, is somehow about making things equal between men and women. I like the sentiment. There is an egoism they I cannot support. What about the needs and feelings of the innocent child that got created? There is no way we should make them casualties in the war between the sexes.

6. Raising a child may be the most important thing we do in our lives. Some people may not be wired to feel anything for their kids and are defective parents and people. I have found that raising a child is the best job.


I appreciate what you are saying, except for number 3. I work hard, have put myself through college, am raising my kids solo (my ex isn't interested in his kids) and am responsible for 64% of the kids financial support because I make more money than he does. I chose to marry/procreate with a jerk, my bad, so I accept the situation. I'm no "pampered beast".

I know many other women in situations similar to mine. You sound like a pretty awesome man, please don't let your situation drive your view of all American women.

What is wrong about all of this is women need to blame someone for all that is wrong in there live
1) I’m Pregnant and it is your entire fault so pay me child support because you didn’t us birth control. Now let’s thing about this men really have one kind of birth control but women have more then 20 from a pill to a shot and the best is some of women birth control can last 3 years.
2) I need more money for child support 17% of the father pay is not enough I need more if he can buy a new car to get to work so he can pay me child support he can give me more money. Now the 17% women get from the father is to much because if the man is making 36,000 a year 17% of that is 6,120 a total of $510 a month and that come out after tax’s so the man mite get paid 1,290 a month after tax’s.
And before anyone says it is had to be a single parent we need help All I can say to you is grow up I have ban a single DAD for 13 years and in and out of court for 8 of them fighting for my son and a single MOM can’t say that because the court give you the kids. And I think being a single parent is the best thing in the world you don’t have to consult with the other parent for some thing you would like to do if the child would like to do a after school activity you don’t need to asking any one ells. As fare as child support goes I have never received a single cent and the court never did anything to her.

My friend got his ex-girlfriend pregnant. He did use a condom. She decided to keep the child.

My friend, who wishes to be a dad, makes arangements to move closer to the mother to have more chances at seeing his child.

When the woman hears that he wants to be a dad, she does what will hurt him the most. ABORTION.

He was screwed either way...

1. If he didnt want the child, she would make him pay for it anyways.

2. He wanted it so she aborted after he moves 50miles from his home.

Why should men have to sit back and watch women make his life desicions? She could of left her pants on also.

If she makes a mistake she gets a 2nd chance, but he has to deal with it.

Hear I have a good one for the women out there say you are married to a man for 5 to 10 years have a family together and live the very happy you don’t work you stay home with the kids and you do all of the stay home house MOM stuff. Now you go to the mail box and see a litter address to your husband from family court. He come home and has known I dear wait this is about. He go down to the family court house and fines out one of his ex-girl friends is saying she had a child from hem 12 years ago and she waits child support from hem. Now lets thing about this lets say he makes 80,000 a year after tax’s he takes home 55,000 after you pay for all of the kids after school activities the car payments and the rent or mortgage and all of the bills you mite be able to save $500 a month. Now you find out she is going to take 17% of that 80,000 and that 17% get added up before tax’s and taking out after tax’s so your 55,000 take home just became 35,000 you can’t do anything about it so now the house MOM need to get a job. And welcome to a man life

On top of everything else, child support payer(usually male) gets no tax releif on federal taxes for child support. He gets no deduction for a dependent. She takes the dependent deduction for her taxes. She does not declare for tax purposes the money she got from child support. In the case you describe, she got about $17,000.00. If she had to make that money herself she would have to make over $25,000.00 to bring home $17,000.00. The benefit is really a $25,000.00 benefit.

That is not all women though... There are actually women out there that would rather the father be in the child's life than recieve financial support... I could care less if I ever got a dime from my daughter's dad... As long as he stays active in her life... I think in cases of joint custody and situations like that, neither party should have to pay child support... I think parents should come together to raise the child they made... I am not with my daughter's dad but if he needed my help, I would help him in a heartbeat and I know he would do the same. This is also a man who didn't want any more kids because he already had 2. If their were more men willing to just be there or to help out when needed, we wouldn't need a child support law.

First, I have a difficult time taking the opinions of someone by the name of Sloppynuts seriously.

Second, yes, for all who are unaware, it is very possible for both parties to decide that procreating would not be in the best interest of either, and nonetheless...she gets pregnant. It's called an accident. Personally, I am familiar with only a small amount of "planned" (by its true meaning: that there was some sort of organizing involved) pregnancies that did not include at least 1 physician that participated in the romantic process of conception. So, when science and medicine becomes so affordable that doctors are able to remove the unwanted embryo from the woman's body and farm it in an incubator to then give to the loving father-to-be. Beginning on this day, men should have the same rights for unintended pregnancies.

That scenario is really sad, but he should have been more careful, rather than leaving the contraceptives to be an optional factor "in the heat of the moment" or whatever the case may have been. And, that is also really sad that this hypothetical couple, now, is forced to join the bulk of US society in becoming a dual income household. Everything in life cannot be planned, life isn't perfect, but life goes on and it can be as beautiful as you want it to be.

Mandi, I can not help but like you. You sound like a really good person.

Sheryl, I agree with you about reproductive right. It is after the kid is born where in I have a problem with the law. There is a bias in the law that makes kids belong to moms not dads. Maybe cultural, in Arab countries kids belong to dad. In the
USA kids belong to mom.
Also, abortion wrongly seems to be an absolute right. In California a child who could not get an asperin without parental permission,(perhaps 13 years old), can get a referral from the school nurse for a state paid abortion kept secret from the childs parents. You might check the Lufkin, Texas case where a young couple got pregnant and they both agreed to kill the 5 month old twin fetuses. They succeeded. Authorities were called in to the case. End result, he got life in prison and she was not punished at all because she has an absolute legal right to abortion.

Thank you Mats... You seem like a good person too... Only thing that you've said that I haven't agreed with is American women being pampered beast. It is true with some women but there are others that work hard all day every day to make it.

Mats, you are right. Once a child is brought into existence, the courts make the assumption that the mother would be a more effective parent, or primary parent, than the father which is not always true. As for the case in Texas, I know nothing about that other than what I have read on the above postings, but it sounds like that boy got the shaft. Seems like he got a nonempethitic public defender? The US legal system is just that . . . a legal system, not a justice system. We vote based on popularity, not knowledge, that’s how we got Arnold.

Abortions, I am strongly pro-choice. If, when my daughter turns 13 she is sexually active, gets pregnant, and decides that she has no business having a baby. I can only hope that I have built a strong enough relationship with her that she has the confidence to talk to me about any of these critical life changing situations. We live in California. So, my daughter having her teacher take her to an abortion clinic without my knowledge can very much be a reality for me.

The vote in California was really narrow in favor of secret abortions. All you have to be is 18 years old to vote. Makes me wonder if these young types were the swing vote in the California election. I can not even believe the vote was close. I think you have to be a parent for the issues of raising kids becomes crystal clear. No system should conspire to undermine parental authority. Parents need to know what is going on in the life of their children to parent in an effective way.
He is an example: my oldest child went to counciling with my wife. (she soon learned that compared to all the other kids, her problems were very minor).
The counciler and many of the parents jumped all over my wife over, "got to give your kids space". That is, the bedroom is there space, and it belongs to the child. My wife said, its my house and I'm going in my daughters room and going through her things often.
The end result, today the spirit of the times say go through your kids room and go through your kids things. Why? Many parents who gave the kids their space found too late they had an advanced drug addict in the house.

If reporting grades was optional, based on kids desire to inform parents, I would be just as outraged as I am about secret abortions. How can you drive a car blinfolded? How can you parent when you do not know your kid is doing bad a school or that your kid is pregnant? I do not appreciate my authority being undermined. The children are not supposed to raise themselves and the state should not interfere with my obligation and right to be fully a parent, except in cases where parent is a danger to child. Remember, all levels of government are hugely incompetant.

i dont think i could've said it better Mats!!!!!

Comments Closed

In order to combat spam, we are no longer accepting comments on this post (or any post more than 45 days old).