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Wednesday, February 22, 2006

From the Other Side

Posted by on February 22 at 9:40 AM

From an Aljazeera interview with Aziz Duwaik, a professor of urban planning at the Najah University of Nablus who won a parliamentary seat in the recent Palestinian legislative elections.

People in Europe value their liberties …And we value our religion and our prophet (peace be upon him). Press freedom is a great ideal. However, could one argue that Hitler and the Nazis were practising their freedom prior to the Holocaust? We know the Holocaust started with cartoons like this against Jews, and with books like Mein Kampf, and then came Kristallnacht … and then we know what happened. These cartoons are a reflection of rampant Islamophobia in Europe, which is very similar and nearly as virulent as the anti-Semitism that existed in Europe, especially in Germany, prior to World War II. This anti-Semitism eventually led to the Holocaust and the deaths of millions of human beings. You see, when you send out thousands of hate messages against a certain ethnic or religious community every day, you make people hate these people, and when mass hatred reaches a certain point, nobody would object to the physical extermination of the hated community when it happens.

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Right. So why does the Muslim press drum up so much hatred, eh? Ever notice how they depict Jews? Protocol of Zion, anyone?

That's terrific. He's against the all those cartoons that were published in Der Sturmer 60 years ago. I would love to know if the good professor has ever once in his life protested the anti-Semitic cartoons, TV shows, newspaper editorials, books, songs, etc. that are produced on a daily basis in the Muslim world.

A previous poster enlightned us that on 60 minutes an influencial Danish Mullah...
"admitted having not only produced a booklet with the cartoons to circulate and inflame peoples' passions, but adding illustrations that were not even part of what any of the papers printed;"

So Mr. Duwaik = total ass clown.

Sigourney, I believe that the low esteem which Prof. Duwaik holds for anti-semitic cartoons in the last century would probably hold true for those published this century. I realize I'm going out on a limb here...

Since the good Professor is so concerned about "hate speech" why isn't he speaking out against the "holocaust cartoon contest" that the Muslim world is reveling in? Why isn't he confronting the hate speech and hate crimes BY Muslims? Until then, tell it to the hand.


The difference is the Jewish community didnt make a worldwide call for riots and put a price on the heads of creators of toons published 60 years ago. These toons are not responsible for Islamophobia...Islamic fundamentalists/militants are responsible for Islamophobia. Unfortunately the violence and intolerance displayed by the islamic community is more appropriately compared to the Nazis rather than the oppressed Jews. No matter if it is a stereo type of that culture, its not without roots of truth...

The violent protests by muslims sure haven't elevated my feelings about Islam, religion in general, or the people who are controlled by them. By comparison, the cartoons of Muhammad the prophet had no impact on me.

Why does everyone assume that Duwaik isn't also speaking against anti-Semitic speech by Muslims, just because Mudede's post doesn't explicitly cite him doing so?  I don't know if he does or doesn't, but shouldn't we check before we use it as grounds to dismiss his views?

Um, why aren't you all protesting that Bellevue mall where the guy fall down an elevator shaft? A man DIED. Until you start protesting this injustice, your opinions are all worthless and your hypocrisy condemns your entire race.

"Islamic fundamentalists/militants are responsible for Islamophobia."

How many white people have committed hate crimes or murders in the US since 9/11 compared to Arab Muslims? Then look at Europe. Then look at Iraq for god's sake. Even as a percentage of their population Muslims are much more gentle. Why aren't you a Caucasophobe or a Christophobe?

The only answer is racism.

The professor is one of many who try and guilt people in to not stating the obvious- Muslims seem pretty fucking intolerate but feel incredibly entitled to a mind boggling amount apeasement anywhere and everywhere.
There are several books and probably thousands of articles dedicated to how the word "antisemitism" is used by some supporters of Israel to silence critics and stifle any objective analyasis. Now lets apply this to Muslims... please! The word "islamaphobic" is just emotional blackmail and is quickly losing its power.

I thought multiple personalities usually assumed different names.

I wrote the first two Jamie comments, an identity theft wrote the third.

It might be easy to think "Islamophobia" doesn't exist living in the USA. In most of western Europe, Muslims are explicitly turned down jobs, housing, fair trials, and simple politeness based solely on their race. It's Europe's first exposure to a significant racial minority and they're not doing too well.

I am the "2nd" Jaime that wrote and it was not ID theft- that is my name. The "other" Jaime wrote "It's Europe's first exposure to a significant racial minority and they're not doing too well." Actually Muslims in Europe aren't "doing too well" being accepting diversity and the secular culture they CHOSE to join which is less mysogenistic, homophobic and biggoted than back home. Europe is not Islamacentric, and to many this is unacceptable and "racist". many are unwilling to show the respect to other religions/belief systems that they demand for themselves.
The people "not doing well", as you put it, are a huge percent of Muslims who think democracy ends when their sensitivities begin. It's not true for me, so I'm not going to be having a pity party cause it's not true for them either. If they are so mistreated they would forgo Europe for one of the 20 something Muslim countries where they can bury their heads in the sand in peace. Europe is being victumized by them not visa versa.

Muslim Arabs and Christian Europeans don't have a great history, but, throughout that history, there's no one aggressor or victim that can be blamed. Muslim Arabs tried to invade Western Europe on many occasions and successfully took over Spain and much of Eastern Europe. Then, Europeans started the Crusades, and back and forth, and on and on.

None of this compares to the oppression Jews have endured over almost two millennia of European history. Pogroms, Inquisitions, denial of basic citizenship that makes dhimmitude look good, and, finally, the Holocaust. Anyone who compares Europe's problems with accepting its new immigrants with European anti-Semitism is ignorant at best, crazy at worst.

Anyone who compares Europe's problems with accepting its new immigrants with European anti-Semitism is ignorant at best, crazy at worst.

That sounds a little bit like Ken Hutcherson's anger over comparisons between gay civil rights and black civil rights because the levels of suffering require different measures.

The Holocaust is unique in history; bigotry and the human impulses to exclude and dominate are not. The comparisons are valid from a standpoint of psychology, even if they seem ridiculous from the standpoint of historical events.

The Nazis were defeated in WWII, but we scored no decisive victory against the human condition. Monsters from the Id and all.

Charles, I appreciate that you're not necessarily in accord with opinions you quote here -- rather, informing us of the tropes outside the US sphere of influence.

That said, Mr. Duwaik is engaging in an incredibly specious act. He writes, "Press freedom is a great ideal. However, could one argue that Hitler and the Nazis were practising their freedom prior to the Holocaust? We know the Holocaust started with cartoons like this against Jews, and with books like Mein Kampf, and then came Kristallnacht … and then we know what happened."

This is interesting, because he's appropriating a specific series of acts that have no relationship to the current situation unless you take as a given that all newspapers in the world--including the Stranger--are controlled by Dubya.

First, the newspapers involved in ostensibly free nations aren't state sponsored or controlled as they were in the Nazi regime. No one claims that governments have free speech rights; individuals do (and unfortunately corporations in the US). Governments have restricted rights of free speech in the same way that individuals have broad rights.

Second, the Nazi regime coordinated and supported violence against Jews and others at the same time it promoted anti-Semitic and anti-"Aryan" portrayals in state-run media.

Third, the only mobs in this equation are on the side of the oppressed--the subset of Muslims (I would guess a small subset) that has been specifically rallied by demogogues who claim that the cartoons are specifically designed to insult their religion. These mobs are self-organizing, as reports from all of the world show.

The minute that we find out the US government designed the cartoons, arranged their publication, and started torching mosques in the US, the minute I hit the barricades.

The Nazi card is a hard one to play. I am Jewish and I know that the Holocaust was one of many large genocides of equal importance. You can't simply count numbers and so forth and say the Holocaust is the only genocide that counts. The Armenian genocide by the Turks, for instance, is still not well known nor accepted, and German observers (this is documented) watched the Turks and took back lessons for the Final Solution.

The Holocaust has been enshrined in law and culture because it was so thoroughly designed. Never again means: we should never again allow any government or force to create the mechanisms of systematic genocide. Unfortunately, it's happening in Dafur right now, and I don't place the loss of my ancestors higher than the people in Dafur the loss of their families and culture.

Now there is an interesting point to be made that Mr. Duwaik expects that Muslims in predominantly non-Muslim Western countries will eventually face the outcome of Jews in Europe. The amount of Islamophobia comes from the discipline that adherents of Mohammad seem to have, which I respect. Most emigre Jews assimilated in the West; most Muslim emigres have not across a couple generations.

A professor in college called Jews who were pious at home (in the Old Country) orthoprax -- they lived in a milieufrommigkeit, she called it, or a piousness of the milieu. When they reached the US, they cast of their dogma as readily as their language. This is partly because despite anti-Semitism, Jews were given a chance to flourish in learning and business.

The countries that accepted tens of millions of immigrants as guest workers or new residents, such as France and Germany, have purposely or accidentally failed to provide them with any sense of the country in which they live. Jews were integated, slowly; Muslims have been pushed off the side for decades.

Glenn, very nice analysis. Thorough and fair. Hey, did we attend SEHS together in the 80s? I remember a classmate with your name, maybe in band, maybe clarinet?

Hey, David, nice to meet you in comments again! Thought I recognized your name. Email is glenn -at- glennf.com. (And now back to genocide.)

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